i know you're replying right now.. haha.
stop typing so much.
hurry up.

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i understand this is spamming, and I apologize, but i wanna see how many posts i can get in before Psychosnowman's finished. I figure it's ok since it's in the debate forum.
come on, who really reads this stuff anyway.

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this is 3 so far, we're all waiting.

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heyitsdean considers himself to be a monkeyboy,seriously, he goes to my school and looks like one, everyone tells him so (on the subject, what about devolution, he is prime evidence, j/p), it's in his Handle on lycos or something ,I would like to see his views on this JL-ly salient issue.

post count: 4

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post count: 5

I'll stop posting now, but i wonder how many words Psychosnowman's post is gonna be. man if you thought he went all out for rape, you ain't seen nothing yet
Juss like in "A-yo" by Jinusean, Psychosnowman's responce will be

the *ish that y'all ain't ready for"

i'm sure it will be full of "mad-props" and "insane thoughts, and "ice-cool rhetoric", as well "chilling words"

oh boy
i'm ecstatic
and so anxious....

here it comes....

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quote:

---

Originally posted by tm11
no offense was intended in the last post, and none in this either.

but on the same token, why doesn't the probability of life being created randomly out of absolutely nothing deny logical thought. It is highly improbable that such an event would occur spontaneously, and there are many other things that have just as low a probability (even ones that have a higher probability) that haven't happened.
If it has happened, why hasn't it happened again?

---

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no offense taken as always ^^, anyway this will probably be long. I'm not going off on anyone , i just type a lot.

Anyway:

On:

1)Yeah, that was a quote i grabbed not targeted at you, only because it was an example i found in the thread. It was used regardless if you believed in it, and was used as an model for what i was talking about.

2)Yes, but i'm sure people didn't think everything was created in 7 days in ancient or whenever times. Hermeneutics has come recently as people have become aware of its improbability and the confrontation from science arguing creation's validity. Anyhoo, This is a question, how did the bible come from god? i don't know ^^; It was just written by people wasn't it? If so, how could they possibly have been right about the creation of everything thousands of years ago? A fairy tale, a fairy tale we take seriously, or the real deal?

3)Yes, but the bible is not a philosophy book (though it can be employed that way). It is a text of God. And if it says everything was created in 7 days? Then why isn't it? What i mean is that why is it written literally but has to be taken interpretively to find the "true meaning" of it. God writes symbolically then? Or is that up to our interpretation as well? This leads in circles.

4)They use the scripture to their purpose usually as answers to problems and whats wrong and right, but interpreting the bible differently than they have in the past does make it very able to make it more believable. How can it not?

5)a)As i see it, faith is accentuated through the reaffirming of the validity that different interpretations of the bible brings to better fit today's more modern and realistic view of creation. k, that was wordy, makes sense to me but if someone doesn't understand it then tell me and i'll rephrase it. But regardless if it is a case-by-case issue, it IS able and IS attached to faith to better validize it.
b)The reason(s) i say it corrupts logical thought is that religion requires one's devotion to it and people are scared to stray away from it. It denies simple common sense to make everything out to be created by a creator depicted as human form at that. If no one had read the bible their entire life, and never heard of creation through randomness or evolution, and they all read both works...i'm sure most would choose the creation through randomness for it's shear logical explanation. Through 20 years of life they had not known anything and would they be willing to believe in a divinity somewhere no one can see that created everything with magic? i don't think so. It's not that great of a n example but i don't care And another thing i think is absurd is that (i'm gonna impose this on creationists) they all believe in this "divine power" or as i call it simply "magic." Do you believe in magic today? i don't think so, then how can god possibly have it? We need to think logically rather than simply say that "there are some things humans will never understand" or "have faith." Do you see how it blocks thought? I know not totally, but i don't see how magic can be even partially believed in. Such trivial answers to questions i hear are: "How was god created?" "He wasn't, he is forever" "How's that possible?" "We don't know, we can't know everything, have faith for he is god." I mean, does it even make any sort of logical sense that he is forever? That's a fairytale to me (i know not to others). If the bible is true, why are people believing in their own variations of a mix of evolution and the bible. It's true, so then...it's not then entirely? God wrote a book through humyns so we'd have to selectively weed out whats believable and whats not?

6)Finally, i was not accusing you tomas of your perception being different from others at all. I was addressing all in general.

--------Next post Riposte (haha pun)---

On:
1)it doesn't deny logical thought to be created through spontaneity because it can be explained in plausible and scientifically possible terms. The probability of it happening does not deny it happened, for we are here. I do not see how any divinity could possible be more plausible. Evolution has proof, randomness is an extension of a basis of proof and creation has...the bible and people of faith, how is that possibly more probable? The bible proclaims it's true, so it's true haha thats absurd. Science finds answers from nothing and proves them. In short, Creation through randomness does not deny logical thought because it doesn't explain itself through circular reasoning, faith, and magic. It explains itself through natural events, even evolution is a proof of randomnesses succesion. As that is random and unprobable as well.

2) Anyway, why hasn't it happened again? It's hard for us at this time to verify whether it has happened again or not. Me, i believe it has happened somewhere else. Personally, i'm still wondering whether we live in a multiverse or not. Would there be a god above that if we could prove it? I believe stephen hawking said something of this. And that's all i need to say.

Last edited by PsychoSnowman on 04-17-2002 at 06:53 PM

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Next, here is some thought provoking quotes from Henry Louis Mencken to think about:


"Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable."

"A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass; he is actually ill. Worse, he is incurable."

"Creator - A comedian whose audience is afraid to laugh. "

This and the last post may seem offensive, they aren't meant that way. On a side note, these quotes aren't my point of view so don't assume i think this way and hate all you guys because i never would ^^, just pasting them for thought. Thanks.

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haha, tommy please (inside joke). I was seriously thinking you might do something like that hahaha. Ohhhh tommy tommy mocking my rhetorics and posts. ooh haha, oh well. Now i got.....Quotes! ho ho. New addition. I bet you really were anxious for it haha. Anyway it did turn out rather long, though it could have been very long heheh. Later :thumbup:

Last edited by PsychoSnowman on 04-17-2002 at 06:54 PM

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I'm at school and i don't have much time since I must depart soon, so I'll be brief in this post. Again, no offense is intended in my post or any other posts in this thread, so i'm not gonna bother saying it anymore.

why does anything exist then?
how did anything come to be.
why did everything just happen to "Be"

I don't want to hear any ereignis stories, but how does an evolutionist explain this? If particles just randomly came together, where did those particles come from?

"God does not roll dice" (for those who believe in evolution, I guess you would say nature does not roll dice), except in the field of quantum mechanics, our current understanding of the physical laws of nature cause us to only be able to predict probablility when dealing with quantum mechanics.

yeah i know this isn't much, i'll explain more when i get home. hold off until then please, you type way too much anyway, haha.

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arrgghh. damn it. no time to post what i want to.
Anyway i'm gonna be leaving for Salt Lake City in 2 days, and I'll be gone for a while. So I probably won't be posting. In the meantime i have to finish 2 hella long papers. Cheers to all, I shall be back lata.

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hah, good luck at salt lake city btw tomas. Anyway, i wrote this awhie earlier today and didn't post it because you told me not to. But since you are not going to post furthermore soon i shall just paste it


>why does anything exist then?

-As a believer in atheism and evolution, there is no purpose. That is a creationist view point, don't confuse them. Reason does not have to exist for it to be plausible and reason doesn't.

>how did anything come to be.

-I have explained,you can read above for details

>why did everything just happen to "Be"

-hm? I don't understand what you mean. One this note though, asking "Why" has no worth in this debate to explain that which has occured. A more substantial question is "how?" which is what we're getting at. Why is trivial, as that assumes an omiscient entity that created us and you are asking why to a theory that has no creator.


Also, regardless of our ability to predict the probability of certain events doesn't make it a flawed argument. We can't predict the probability of a divinity creating us and people still hold that together, nor probability of volcanoes erupting. But nonetheless, we know there exists a probability for them to erupt. The limitation of human knowledge doesn't in any way screw the argument. Something very important to realize is that when we are dealing with the creation of the multiverse or universe, we must remember that this incorporates quantum mechanics as well. In fact, quantum mechanics is the basis of Super String/M-Theory (which attempt to unify relativity with quantum theories to explain the universe being created.) So we can determine probability then according to your logic? Anyway, it doesn't even matter. Probability is one of the main proofs of evolution. Because it IS probably however unlikely and that a creator is literally not probable at all (there are no factors hinting towards it except the bible itself, again...circular reasoning). Also evolution and life from nonlife has actual evidence besides some document written and believed by humans. If we wrote a book about evolution and the creation of the universe and pointed towards that for all proof, it'd be the same as a bible reasoning but we don't. The difference is that evolution is based upon real life and when we point to a book...it goes a step beyond that and proof is shown within the environment (specific examples aren't needed). And biblical creation is based upon a fantasy that "could" happen. (yes, evolution "could" happen as well, but it has proof shown in real life) But the point is that they point towards a book...only. Okay, predictions outlined in the bible don't prove anything. Can psychics predict the future actually? Most people don't think so and they are probably right, so how could god? It's not beyond our understanding, it's just beyond the constraints of thought creationists refuse to think beyond. Anyway, the predictions are of coincidence or of logical predictions, but the dates are off unless hermaneutics is applied but i said what i thought about that above. Anyway thats all, Kudahafus.

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damn it david, you still type tooo much. oh well, I've been posting on and off, but my full reply may not come until later. I have been thinking about it, but I just haven't had time to type it all. I must concentrate and focus. Power with perception is nothing. i donno, i juss felt like saying that last thing, it's from Fist of the North Star. haha. anyway.

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i know, people tell me all the time. Saying i type too much is like saying i have too many ideas or say too much, as if i should shorten them to blend in with the rest of the posts. I hereby give permission for all other members on the forum to type long messages haha, i will read them and not say you type too much.

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haha, ok.
nah it's ok, type as much as u want
it's just a lot, much more than heyitsdean can handle. that is for sure. haha j/k

it's all good.

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thank you tomas

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anyway, in response of less words, a word from a good old friend Nietzche to respond to your argument upon the query of why anything exists:

For what purpose humanity is there should not even concern us: why you are there, that you should ask yourself: and if you have no ready answer, then set for yourself goals, high and noble goals, and perish in pursuit of them! I know of no better life purpose than to perish in attempting the great and the impossible...
- Friedrich Nietzsche, unpublished note 1873

(i posted this is the other thread, but they fit in both cases, hah ) Why doesn't matter, we're here regardless. "How" is where it's all about.

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evolution. they don't really teach that at school anymore. why is evolution such a big freakin' deal anyways? things do evolve to adapt to changing conditions, but that's life.

anyways, did you know that humans are evolving to where wisdom teeth is dying out?

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that and if evolution really occurs, our pinkis will disappear.

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i didnt bother reading the whole thing since its too long but for creationist
if you think a creator created everything in the universe, then who created the creator? he cant just have appeared out of no where can he?

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