k, Dream Catcher, i think a lot of answers to your post are in my preceding post as well. But i'll answer in brief some of yours cause i think most are in the last one.

going through initial pain obviously doesn't constitute suicide, but yes that would be less selfish and better cause it's their life deciding for their own self

Whether someones life is ruined is subjective of course. But if they can get out of that ruined life, it wouldn't be ruined would it? I'd say yes, it is better to be selfless and have the baby born, it's not your life so don't kill it without knowing that you did it not selflessly, but selfishly.

yeah, i still don't agree though. abortion can't be the most thoughtful solution. It'll be the most thoughtful solution to what the mother THINKs will help the child, not the most thoughtful decision for the child itself. I really don't think those are interchangable.

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Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

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See, Dreamcatcher. U don't make much sense, the fetus is a life. It can't be inanimate and then suddenly have life when its over 3 months old! It has life from the very beginning. And is there a problem with repeating things? I am just stating that I don't think your reasons are strong enough.

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hm...
well i think i agree with dreamcatcher and aurora.
although killing an innocent baby isn't what you'd call 'good', i, personally, would rather abort a child if it i know it won't receive the good, living life it needs.
and what if, say, the mother of the child was raped? and she doesn't want to keep the memories of ever being raped? then wouldn't it be better to destroy the baby instead of living a life of misery? and what would the child say if s/he grew up and realised all the other kids had fathers but s/he didn't? how would the little guy feel??
anyways, post ur replies ^^

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well, i've answered all of arc de ciel's arg's, so...

yeah i agree with frenzy as well. Saying a fetus isn't life is really contradictory, and i really don't know how they argue their point besides on the basis of conscienceness which really isn't that great of an argument. Ok, so trees and plants are all "concious" of their life (yeah you didn't bring it up, but it's a common arg)

i'll just restate again for no reason, what the little guy feels after he is born is up to him, not the mother or anyone else. If it is decided by the mother, it wasn't hers to choose and that isn't right, and it's selfish. Accept it or refute it, but don't deny it. Thats just dumb.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

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Okay REALITY CHECK hahah

This is exactly what I mentioned before. This whole debate is focused around conflicting personal beliefs on subjects. Therefore, since it seems that all of you have strong convictions in your views this will NEVER be resolved. And more pointedly, this has never been resolved at the national level as an issue.
So thus, Frenzy: You're never going to understand their side of the argument or agree with them. WHy? It's because you have drastically different viewpoints than theirs and believe that abortion is inheriently evil. They do not believe it is evil, but more that it is a matter of situation and consequence in some cases. Im not trying to point you out specifically but it appears that you're trying to convince them of your side which i will go into below. oh not to be nitpicky, but your statement of "don't you care?????" falls into the logical fallacies of Appeal to the Gallery and Appeal to force/threat.

Though we can contribute our ideas into this discussion, it is pointless to try to convince others of your opinions and describe why their opinion is worse, and these two fundamentally lead to attacks of the other side. Not only is it pointless but it will never lead to a resolution because of the strong personal beliefs and unwillingness to compromise with such an issue.

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ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Last edited by Crazydeb8ter on 06-05-2002 at 06:03 PM

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quote:

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Though we can contribute our ideas into this discussion, it is pointless to try to convince others of your opinions and describe why their opinion is worse, and these two fundamentally lead to attacks of the other side. Not only is it pointless but it will never lead to a resolution because of the strong personal beliefs and unwillingness to compromise with such an issue.

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