Bored? Come in and play at Jusunlee.com Arcade! Go chat in Jusunlee.com Chatroom (requires AIM) Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Registration is free! Calendar Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Home
Jusunlee.com Forums > Intellectuals > Enlightenment > fatalism
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
annabanana
Food Moderator

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Dallas, TX. sucks...
Posts: 806
Status: Offline

fatalism

do you believe things happen for a reason? like a kind of predestination?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-03-2002 04:37 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for annabanana Click here to Send annabanana a Private Message Find more posts by annabanana Add annabanana to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Chil
Member

Registered: Apr 2002
Location:
Posts: 82
Status: Offline

Re: fatalism

quote:
Originally posted by annabanana
do you believe things happen for a reason? like a kind of predestination?


I think anything can be justified as predestination, or coincidence, it depends on how a person precieves a situation.
if they are more suited to superstition beliefs, then predestination can be used to explain many things
many people also believe they are masters of their own future and destiny, and that if fate happens, it happened cause they made it happen.
it's another one of those things that can't really be explained or proven.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-03-2002 07:52 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for Chil Click here to Send Chil a Private Message Find more posts by Chil Add Chil to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
annabanana
Food Moderator

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Dallas, TX. sucks...
Posts: 806
Status: Offline

i think things happen for a reason. i don't believe too much in predestination, but i do think that some events are life-changing and will set up the rest of the events to come after. like, deciding to go into an audition and then getting a callback.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-04-2002 03:14 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for annabanana Click here to Send annabanana a Private Message Find more posts by annabanana Add annabanana to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
PsychoSnowman
Debate Mod

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Snowman's Land
Posts: 3706
Status: Offline

everytime i think of destiny i think of some entity. Thats what it makes out to be when people go about describing it. It's a set path for what people are bound to do within their lifetime. If you are in control of your own destiny then a destiny doesn't actually exist. I've heard of people saying that though your destiny may change there will be another destiny foreseeing that destiny's changes. However, the problem with that is that it leads to an infinite number of these destinies.

But the question, how could a destiny possibly exist? It's not a person or god, it's an entity that is as i see it "made up." So this entity is santa claus, foreseeing everything you do. This lends itself to creationism in a way in that of the time of judgement.

It's like that math thread, of does it exist? it does and it doesn't, we endow it with a name by generalizing it all into one. The actual events that make up destiny are true but does that constitute the existence of an actual destiny? It's like time as far as my understanding of it is so far (i'm rather agnostic about it, it's probably true what they say though as i have not delved far enough into physics yet), so time is the 4th dimension when it could in fact just be a moniker we give to a generalization of the change of events. Is it actually a dimension or not? I dunno.Thats all i'll say in fear of no one reading this

Last edited by PsychoSnowman on 05-04-2002 at 03:19 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-04-2002 03:16 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for PsychoSnowman Click here to Send PsychoSnowman a Private Message Find more posts by PsychoSnowman Add PsychoSnowman to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Ladi Jay
OG of JSL

Registered: Mar 2002
Location:
Posts: 4728
Status: Offline

I think that sometimes, actions act upon 'predestination'

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-05-2002 04:20 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for Ladi Jay Click here to Send Ladi Jay a Private Message Find more posts by Ladi Jay Add Ladi Jay to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Alchemist
3 Coulombs

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: In your dreams
Posts: 3769
Status: Offline

at school this kid said he was predestined to not have his homework

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-05-2002 04:44 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for Alchemist Click here to Send Alchemist a Private Message Visit Alchemist's homepage! Find more posts by Alchemist Add Alchemist to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Prototype
Moderator

Registered: Apr 2002
Location:
Posts: 708
Status: Offline

Predestination cannot exist unless precognition exists.

and if precognition and clairvoyence exist, than free will does not.

__________________

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-09-2002 04:43 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for Prototype Click here to Send Prototype a Private Message Visit Prototype's homepage! Find more posts by Prototype Add Prototype to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jakez0r
Junior Member

Registered: May 2002
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 14
Status: Offline

fatalism is a redundant topic of discussion.

First of all, men have free will. If you need proof of this statement, then i suggest you read up on critiques of behaviorist experiments conducted by Watson or Skinner. The obvious conclusion is that no human can be permanently conditioned to do something. I like a quotation from the book Dune by Frank Herbert which goes along like this "The difference between a man and an animal is that if an animal is trapped it will chew off its leg in order to escape. A man, however, will endure the pain of the trap in order to kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind."

Now that we've established that humans have free will, i'll go on to say that higher orders of nature do not control us (ie gods). If any of you are bored enough to read a few religious texts (Koran by Muhammed, Kitab - i - Aqdas by Baha 'u' llah, Bible, etc), not only does it say there is only one God, but it also states this God does not interfere with the affairs of man.

In conclusion, fatalism is a concept invented by people who do not wish to accept responsibility for their actions.

On a side note, i reccomend reading the Oedipus Greek Tragedy as it contains a lot of fatalist ideas.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-14-2002 08:28 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for jakez0r Click here to Send jakez0r a Private Message Visit jakez0r's homepage! Find more posts by jakez0r Add jakez0r to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MellowYellow
Moderator

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: In Transition, CA
Posts: 3259
Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by jakez0r

In conclusion, fatalism is a concept invented by people who do not wish to accept responsibility for their actions.

On a side note, i reccomend reading the Oedipus Greek Tragedy as it contains a lot of fatalist ideas.



well i don't really know what fatalism is... i guess i believe that God has a plan for all of us. you can go his way... or your way.... but preferably.... his way....

so i guess i believe in destiny.... but nothing is set in stone.. you can be destined to do something... but it's up to you to make it happen... mm... haha... trying to see if that made sense .... or just sounded corny

well thanks for the recommendation uh... jake is it? i'll be sure to read that.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-14-2002 01:54 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for MellowYellow Click here to Send MellowYellow a Private Message Find more posts by MellowYellow Add MellowYellow to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
aznkid1008
God is my judge

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: nj
Posts: 2031
Status: Offline

i believe every action and decision made by someone was made for some reason and will alter the future in some way even if its the smallest thing. i believe that those decisions made and wat happens r made for some reason at that time. that reason i would say is God.

__________________
the fool is the one who thinks he is wise, yet the wise one is the one who thinks he is a fool

Remember the heros
Remember the lives
Remember the day
God bless

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-14-2002 01:57 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for aznkid1008 Click here to Send aznkid1008 a Private Message Find more posts by aznkid1008 Add aznkid1008 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
huby40
Squeak....

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 1126
Status: Offline

we control what the next generation will live in. just as the previous generation's actions control us. we are not masters of our own fate, but of our children's.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-14-2002 02:29 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for huby40 Click here to Send huby40 a Private Message Find more posts by huby40 Add huby40 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
huby40
Squeak....

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 1126
Status: Offline

wait, i just thought of something.

there is no such thing as free will. let's take a simple example:

clothes shopping. you go out to buy some clothes and you think that you have a choice. but do you? who decides what clothes are standing there inside that store? You don't, one of the store's worker does.

so does the worker have a choice over what clothes there are? no. who decides what kind of clothes there ought to be? not the worker, the designer. who decides what is a good design that's in fashion? not the designer but the public demand the fashion. who controls the public? media, government, etc. then you got the people in those areas that have choices that are effected by others and the chain keeps on going and going.

apply this example to all situations and it will work.

so is there fate? not sure. is there free will? no. because all actions are determined by everybody else.

:exclaim:

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-14-2002 02:46 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for huby40 Click here to Send huby40 a Private Message Find more posts by huby40 Add huby40 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
aznkid1008
God is my judge

Registered: Apr 2002
Location: nj
Posts: 2031
Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by huby40
wait, i just thought of something.

there is no such thing as free will. let's take a simple example:

clothes shopping. you go out to buy some clothes and you think that you have a choice. but do you? who decides what clothes are standing there inside that store? You don't, one of the store's worker does.

so does the worker have a choice over what clothes there are? no. who decides what kind of clothes there ought to be? not the worker, the designer. who decides what is a good design that's in fashion? not the designer but the public demand the fashion. who controls the public? media, government, etc. then you got the people in those areas that have choices that are effected by others and the chain keeps on going and going.

apply this example to all situations and it will work.

so is there fate? not sure. is there free will? no. because all actions are determined by everybody else.

:exclaim:



dude this had gotten to ur head

__________________
the fool is the one who thinks he is wise, yet the wise one is the one who thinks he is a fool

Remember the heros
Remember the lives
Remember the day
God bless

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-14-2002 02:50 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for aznkid1008 Click here to Send aznkid1008 a Private Message Find more posts by aznkid1008 Add aznkid1008 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Zero-Sen
....

Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 274
Status: Offline

WELL you can all make choices that affect others as well making you the person who can control other's destinys but the same thing. THUS is society and relationships. They are inevitable. Unless ur a hermit and all. You could also make the ULTIMATE decision. Suicide, relgion, o itz all good.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-14-2002 03:50 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for Zero-Sen Click here to Send Zero-Sen a Private Message Find more posts by Zero-Sen Add Zero-Sen to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jakez0r
Junior Member

Registered: May 2002
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 14
Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by huby40
wait, i just thought of something.

there is no such thing as free will. let's take a simple example:

clothes shopping. you go out to buy some clothes and you think that you have a choice. but do you? who decides what clothes are standing there inside that store? You don't, one of the store's worker does.

so does the worker have a choice over what clothes there are? no. who decides what kind of clothes there ought to be? not the worker, the designer. who decides what is a good design that's in fashion? not the designer but the public demand the fashion. who controls the public? media, government, etc. then you got the people in those areas that have choices that are effected by others and the chain keeps on going and going.

apply this example to all situations and it will work.

so is there fate? not sure. is there free will? no. because all actions are determined by everybody else.

:exclaim:



that point is moot for the simple reason that you do not have the physical capacity in order to purchase a different style of clothing, unless you make your own.

Its just like saying an athlete has the choice of running the 100 meter spring in 5 seconds or less. He can't do it because he isnt physically able.

Yes, other people can and will influence the decisions you make. The world is complex like that. However, you can try all you want but fatalism does not exist. Nothing makes you "pre-determined" to do something

__________________
Thread Bumper Extraordinaire

Bumping Threads Since 2001

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 05-14-2002 05:39 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for jakez0r Click here to Send jakez0r a Private Message Visit jakez0r's homepage! Find more posts by jakez0r Add jakez0r to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:35 PM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
  Last Thread   Next Thread

Show Printable Version Email this Page Subscribe to this Thread

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON