theres been many things ive wanted to say. heres as follows.

1. ive been browsing the forums more often lately, and im quite disappointed by the lack of quality of the posts ive seen thus far. most of it is trash, really, if i was to be frank. of all the posts ive read these last three days, ive only found one that i thought was decent. thats 1 out of 1046 new posts made during that time. not that im trying to discourage any of you, but i wish more of you would make posts containing 200+ words more often. say something meaningful for once, not just petty one liners, or even worse, one word or smilie responses.

2. also, ive noticed whenever there are quality posts, some of the replies they get are unforgivable. if youre going to respond to such a post, atleast have the decency to be sincere and informative. a 'oo im touched' or 'oo thats sweet' or 'oo thats nice' just wont do. might as well have the balls to blatantly spam and start a 'im going to count to one thousand thread' instead. trust me, i would look upon the latter much nicely than the former. you dont know how much that discourages the poster when, after going through the time and trouble to write such a quality post, he or she finds that this forum is too petty to realize and appreciate it. he or she then might leave and join another forum, leaving only the petty ones behind to become pettier together. thats the last thing i want to see in these forums. so form now on, whenever i see garbage replies for quality posts, im going to deduct up to 100 posts of the user's posts count, depending on the damage it does to the quality of the thread.

3. when i first made these forums, i originally thought it would be best to take a detached and objective approach so that i wouldnt be biased in my administrative decisions. however, considering the lack of quality posters in these forums, ive decided that im going to actively participate from now on. i consider myself pretty open minded but i can also be very closed, especially when i know im right (oh the irony). im also very opinionated in many matters, and have interests in many different areas. im letting you know in advance that i may participate in arguments and debates from now on, but please dont get discouraged or intiminated if im against you. im harmless really, and ill try to the best of my abilities to put aside my personal feelings whenever i have to make an administrative decision. that means -> just because i may not like you personally wont mean i will abuse my powers to make you unhappy. i consider myself pretty mature, so it is safe to say that thatll never happen.

4. as far as the progress of the site goes, im pretty much done with the new media section, save for the more recent albums (3 months or less), ready for download. ofcourse, nothing is yet available to the public, the reason being that im afraid the server will overload the moment i reopen the media section. considering that i currently have more than 200 albums, and that there arent korean mp3 sites anymore for easy download, this site has the potential to become an instant overnight hit. im afaid ill have to buy a new dedicated server specifically for media downloads, which as of the moment, i cannot afford. theres several viable options for a solution: a) discarde the mp3 section entirely and put up a music video section. this will help me save tremendous bandwidth because there are still plenty of korean websites offering music videos of which i can directly link to. b) only exclusive members having access to download the mp3s. this would range from forum membership with a specified amount of posts to paid subscription users (it wont be much, around 2$ a month). c) 'forget the media section entirely and work on the ezine damit!' d) 'oooh i know, i have a brilliant idea that i want to share!' please reply with your opinions. as of right now, i am thinking of option b more or less, where only paid subscription users will be able to download. its really up to the masses thatll change my mind.

5. concerning the bureaucracy of the forums, heres a new thought: i want to try running these forums by democratic principles. that means -> users having to vote for forum moderators, according to their maturity and knowledge in their respective subjects (hopefully), which in turn will vote for super moderators. in a government sense, the regular forum users will be the 'masses', the moderators the 'delegates' and super moderators the 'senators' and me ultimately being the 'dictator' (muahaha). no really, nowadays, i dont get to administrate much anyways, as the moderators are doing a superb job on their own. yet, it would be better, for the well being of the forums, to have the same person overlooking everything, making sure changes go smoothly. and we can hold new elections ever 4 months. but in order for such a thing to really work out, we need an educated and somewhat mature forum population, something that at this moment, i am not too sure of. i am sorry if you may feel otherwise and am offended, but my conclusions are based upon the quality of the posts ive seen thus far. maybe you dont behave like this in the real world, maybe youre actualy more opinionated, have an appreciation for intellect, and know how to go beyong trivialities. maybe.. but i have to vertify that through the posts you make. so i suppose its up to you to prove me wrong. (yes, im talking to you).

woa. this must be the longest post ever in these forums, save for the creative writing pieces. i truely hope you took the time to read everything if youre planning to hit that reply button. and please take everything i had to say with a grain of salt. my intentions of writing this post was not to inflame or offend you, but to suggest improvements through it. ..oh and i better not get those cheesy one line responses. thats minus 100 posts to you sir.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jusunlee
im going to deduct up to 100 posts of the user's posts count, depending on the damage it does to the quality of the thread.

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__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

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quote:

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Originally posted by jusunlee


5. concerning the bureaucracy of the forums, heres a new thought: i want to try running these forums by democratic principles. that means -> users having to vote for forum moderators, according to their maturity and knowledge in their respective subjects (hopefully), which in turn will vote for super moderators. in a government sense, the regular forum users will be the 'masses', the moderators the 'delegates' and super moderators the 'senators' and me ultimately being the 'dictator' (muahaha). no really, nowadays, i dont get to administrate much anyways, as the moderators are doing a superb job on their own. yet, it would be better, for the well being of the forums, to have the same person overlooking everything, making sure changes go smoothly. and we can hold new elections ever 4 months. but in order for such a thing to really work out, we need an educated and somewhat mature forum population, something that at this moment, i am not too sure of. i am sorry if you may feel otherwise and am offended, but my conclusions are based upon the quality of the posts ive seen thus far. maybe you dont behave like this in the real world, maybe youre actualy more opinionated, have an appreciation for intellect, and know how to go beyong trivialities. maybe.. but i have to vertify that through the posts you make. so i suppose its up to you to prove me wrong. (yes, im talking to you).

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im sorry u feel dat way jusun
but i hope the other users will try and cooperate under ur terms

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im me- AIM: choiboii12
XANGA : choiboii123

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quote:

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Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter
i do hate to be rude, but the "standard" you're going to impose is based on your own personal bias and preference. According to what you're proposing we might as well take out the whole random thoughts forum. But let's consider this, what's the point of the random thoughts forum? For posting random thoughts. Thoughts can come in variety of "sizes," large or small-> the administrator simply cannot be the "thought police." Call it censorship, if you will. Let's take a look at personal pictures. How much meaning can you pack into a post regarding someone's mug shot? Certainly not over 200 words.
Each forum has serves its own purpose.

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I agree with you here.
I like the idea of having people put more thought into their posts, including me...but you cant really write a whole lot on some of the posts found in random thoughts, personal pictures, and other pictures. But in other places like creative writing, lyricism, artwork...and things like that I think thats a good idea because when people post things they like to see what people think. And like you said people including me will reply with oh that was so sweet. I apologize for writing some dumb posts in places where I could of put more thought into what I was going to say. From now on Im going to give people more tips and tell them more about what I think. But yea...I dont think you can really do that in a few of trhe forums. Thats just what I think hehe...As for everything else...it all sounds good!

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quote:

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Originally posted by MasWusHot
I agree with you here.
I like the idea of having people put more thought into their posts, including me...but you cant really write a whole lot on some of the posts found in random thoughts, personal pictures, and other pictures. But in other places like creative writing, lyricism, artwork...and things like that I think thats a good idea because when people post things they like to see what people think. And like you said people including me will reply with oh that was so sweet. I apologize for writing some dumb posts in places where I could of put more thought into what I was going to say. From now on Im going to give people more tips and tell them more about what I think. But yea...I dont think you can really do that in a few of trhe forums. Thats just what I think hehe...As for everything else...it all sounds good!

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alright after reading this ive decide no more spamming

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and thanks a lot for taking away 200+ posts of mine

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quote:

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Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter
i do hate to be rude, but the "standard" you're going to impose is based on your own personal bias and preference. According to what you're proposing we might as well take out the whole random thoughts forum. But let's consider this, what's the point of the random thoughts forum? For posting random thoughts. Thoughts can come in variety of "sizes," large or small-> the administrator simply cannot be the "thought police." Call it censorship, if you will. Let's take a look at personal pictures. How much meaning can you pack into a post regarding someone's mug shot? Certainly not over 200 words. Each forum has serves its own purpose.

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reading the other responses to my new 'no garbage' policy futhers my belief of the current pathetic state of mentality of these forums. i ask, is it too hard to understand this statement -> 'ive noticed whenever there are quality posts, some of the replies they get are unforgivable'? not in the intention of insulting the mentality of those that responded.. but thats just.. pathetic. sorry.

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ooh that's nice.

kidding.
heh, anyways, with regards to the issue of shallow responses to thought out posts....
yes, it doesn't do justice to the original post/poster when someone replies with just a few lines or an emoticon to a few hundred visceral words, but I doubt anyone takes as much offense (not really offense, but who else is appalled? this matter doesn't bother me much, but I'm curious to see) as you make it out to. Roentgen didn't seem to be too perturbed by Victor's terseness, and while that comment didn't contribute much to the thread, it doesn't seem to harm it in any way. In this way, it seems like what may happen is that some things will be just left unsaid. Sure, someone could take the time to think out a post, but considering how many people on JSL complain about reading a 200+word post, I doubt that will happen.

I really think you're setting your standards too high for these forums, however, it's good that you're being proactive about it (on a sidenote, despite my lack of posting, I've thought your recent kindling of activity has been interesting). With your new requirement that posts must be at least 200 meaningful words, I think the one thing that's likely to happen is that people will just have more of the same drivel. Now, people will focus on quantity
instead of quality, which will naturally lend itself to less posts, which can be a good and bad thing, I suppose.
Then, your penalty... I assume you will be the ultimate arbiter of what has meaning and what doesn't?
It's not a bad idea, but if the criteria is just that a post has to have 200 words, that doesn't suffice. If it is what a reasonable person deems to be a constructive post, I guess that's better, I am not worried about this penalty, and I don't care either way (I think post counts are irrelevent), but I do fear for those who will be unaware or uncapable (not to deny anyone of that possibility, but I say that with regards to people who don't want to say that much) of this, because this could just turn out to be insidious censorship. It might not matter in the end.

Then, about the media section...
If the server load would be too high if you posted up mp3's, why not wait for a while until a viable option appears so that those can be made available, and in the meantime, post up videos and work on the e-zine?
It would be very convenient if we at least had a partial media section that had videos, and star info, just as the one you had up was, except without audio files. It would sate some visitors looking for a media section, and would be very convenient to have all the videos available and concentrated on this site.
I was hoping that at least a new batch of zandd articles would be posted up in december, and I think that could be done soon. I don't know how difficult it would be, but I doubt it'd be very time-
consuming to put up old articles at least. There were some people who were very interested in the e-zine a while ago, but then the e-zine died before it could ever start up, and JSL v. 2.0 was just left a hollow shell of its former self, considering how many things unfortunately fell through due to whatever reason.

Lately I haven't been posting all that much , it still seems like there's a lot of activity, but nothing I've cared for too much. Most of my posts these last few days have been in the "what are you listening to thread," and they've been out of boredom. Nothing too inspiring, but just akin to small talk, one of the aspects of this forum I find charming. I am appalled by the fact that you are appalled with the state of the forums. The mentality you say exists I think is only a farce that extends to some people, by far, not all of them.
Another thing that bothers me, and I know it's not just me, is how you create this dichotomy between yourself and everyone else. I understand this is your site and you've put a lot of work into it and don't want to see it go to seed, but creating this pseudo-intellectual apartheid may be a bit too much. I think your fears of people turning away from the forums are a bit subjective, and only come from your response to what's been occuring on the forums lately. You have good intentions, but I am doubtful whether your ambitions will be realized. For now, I am just glad this forum isn't like some others, which I won't name.

I don't mean to offend, but I think some dissent is natural, and we'll see what happens in the end, hopefully, this will be for the best.

I have only mixed feelings...

Finally, I know Victor already corrected you on this, but when you assume that your post was the longest post on this forum, that shows that you're unaware of the occurances in the debate forum. I suppose it was a forum that didn't interest you much before as you were quite aloof, but David (Psychosnowman) was the first person to ever use up all of the space in one post on JSL, not that this is that important, but perhaps if you hadn't been so detached and had been more involved (at least viewing) in the debate and enlightenment forums(Aside from starting threads with an initial post like this ".", which wasn't a bad thing, I'm not in a place to criticize you as I haven't contributed very much to it as of late, and it's not my intention to criticize you) you would realize this mentality you think exists isn't that severe.

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Last edited by tm11 on 01-28-2003 at 06:00 PM

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Hmm...anyway, i'm just rather shocked by this.

Sure, i've thought about the useless posts that are in the forums, but i never would have dreamt of enacting a policy like this. This intellectual apartheid your trying to create all for the eventual utilitarian views of the administrator. It's repulsive, it really is. This seperation of members based on their intellectual standing is sickening. I don't care if it's garbage...no need to enforce inquisition on those who didn't even mean to cause . I'm going to start laughing when we start seeing negative post counts, cause this is really absurd. I know you had your reasons for posting and usually i let whatever you say go without directly confronting it, but this is really an interesting action you've decided to take.

The people you hope to attract through the elimination of the beauracracy is failing through your creation of a new one. The overtaking of the old farm only for the new animal farm to become exactly what they hoped to get rid of. People aren't going to want to come to a forum where they have to be "smart enough" based on whatever we perceive through their online postings. As victor said, this is really biased. This is sickening. Please, tell me how this isn't hypocritical. We're supposedly getting rid of the beaurocracy only to put up another one. Let's make it democratic, and deduct post counts so as to level everyone equally, and then gradually filter out everyone whose not as smart or whatever as everyone else based on their posts. The entire forum will be one big beaurocracy. What are you doing? The democratic idea could work, it's worked on forums like crossx.com and the like but their mods stay mods for as long as they want or until they get out of control or whatever. I think it'd be a hastle to have constant elections. Hm, but whatever you want.

Off your #1, i'm not really sure how this works with forums, as victor stated, like "random thoughts" or "personal/other pictures" and "artwork." Seriously, do you expect long circumlocuting posts just so we can get above 200 words? That's absurd, in teh cases of a picture, one liners are fine. I know what you mean when people write something really long and all they get in return is "wow, that is interesting" or soemthing like that. I've probably had this happen more than most people on this forum and i dont' take offense to it. As my ma' TM11 points out, it's not bad, it's not insulting so it's better than an offensive remark. I don't care, and if me, someone who this has happened to a lot doesn't care...how many others do? I'm sure i don't feel differently than everyone else. Different forums serve different purposes. PP and OP and random thoughts and artwork and reception and all those forums like that don't need 200+ words. I mean i've written large compositions in teh debate forum for no one to EVER respond (one thread comes to mind "masculine and feminine"). I'd rather have had someone say "interesitng" or something than nothing. I'm not really that discouraged cause i dont' care that much, but i don't think one liners are that bad. That's asking for too much, and asking for people to needlessly create long posts filled with nothing more than words repeating themselves just so they can appear long. Seriously though, do you realize how many complaints i get becasue of the size of my posts? People don't want to read it, they wont' and they just skip over it. Either that, or they assume i'm mad becuase i wrote so much. I would not need to put that message in my signature if this wasn't happening on this forum because i have to disclaim everytime i write a longer post. If people are like this then i dont' see how meaningful replies would be able to help attract people when peopl ejust want a place to get together and share ideas without reading a novel. Think realistically for a second, we have a lot of freshmen and a lot of younger kids on teh forum. I myself am only 18, probably as old as you, but people our age don't tend to want to come online and type novels for intellectual vigor. If you want an environment of high schoolers who want to do that, go to crossx.com, you'll find whatever you want there and more. This is a kpop forum, the mention of that doesn't really entail the words "intellectual vigor" in my mind, i don't see why it would attract it. A forum for that purpsoe would attract that audience, but what the image put out seems two faced in a way. We have a kpop forum, and then when poeple come to join they are immediately assessed and filtered in order to see if they reach the standards. These standards aren't realisitc. I like a lot of the shorter posters, like alex who posts are really contributive and i like what he brings to the forum. Will he be gone becuase he doesn't post 200+ words? I hope not, that'd be just stupid. But if it's what you want then ok. Or are we going to start deducting post counts until everyone gets into the negative range? haha. It'll scare more poeple than it will attract. Too authoritative if you ask me. We have a new elimination of the beaurocracy through democracy, adn then now we turn around and have a huge liberal aspect of the forum administration that goes and filters everything, like a huge censorship...ugh.

Off #2, i kind of all ready talked about this. But, it really doesn't discourage me that much and i'm sure a lot of people who post long posts like me and some others don't feel so discouraged. I don't think the forums will regress into a demented community either. I haven't left becuase of some of the one liners i get. It's nice to know people appreciate what i said, even if they didn't read it cause i really don't know hehe. But, granted people probably leave because of that...though i've really NEVER seen that happen on these forums EVER, and i've been here pretty much since the beginning.

Off #3, all right, i'm waiting for you in the debate and enlightenment forums. Bring it.

Off #4, don't care, i didn't bother reading it.

Off #5, i talked about that above somewhere in that jumbled mess

quote:

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(yes, im talking to you).

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Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Last edited by PsychoSnowman on 01-27-2003 at 11:11 PM

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hmm...interesting

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

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wow, all this new stuff kinda scares me... I'm gonna be jumping all over the place buh bare with me... that's what I do...

I've been gone for the last couple of days, if not weeks(which is what it seems like)... butta, you have pretty good points there Jusun... I found some member's posts to be somewhat annoying, dumb, or irrelevant to the thread(mebbe I did some myself too, who knows)... buh basically, you have some excellent points...

I was like, "Yey yey! Media's gonna be up again!" then read on, I was like, "aww, darn! I have to wait longer!" btw, I'm up for your decision of membership... yada yada yada, if it becomes final...

the moderator, super mod, admin. thing... it scared me too... first of all, when I read it, seemed like it was pointed towards me... basically because I don't think I have the "knowledge in their respective subjects..." so yeah, debate... buh hey, I try right?... as I stated before about two times in some other threads, I mod because I'll actually look there and it'll help me A LOT.... seriously, debate actually made me a better arguer and I'm more opinionated now... that's why I wanna mod there, although I don't have that intellect knowledge.

jeeze, I swear all this scares me... now I'll have to count all my future posts to see if I have 200 words or more *starts counting this reply* 1, 2, 3, 4, 5..... I quit!

oh, tommy's got a point to... say, tommy... where's my picture?

yes, an opinion from a jsl forum member who is not so intellect... I guess I'm out?

Last edited by Ladi Jay on 01-27-2003 at 09:48 PM

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seriously like tm11 said, its just a forum, let it go

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and jusun, stop taking off post counts, serously. i havent spammed that much for you to take all those off. stop.

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quote:

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just because i may not like you personally wont mean i will abuse my powers to make you unhappy. i consider myself pretty mature, so it is safe to say that thatll never happen.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jusunlee
clearly, something like that is unacceptable. it will encourage users who may have the potential to write quality to refrain themselves in the future, reasoning that this forum lacks and frowns on that sort of mentality. take me for a fool, but im not going to just sit and watch that kind of garbage happen next time.

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__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

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ooh you just got told

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quote:

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Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter
i do hate to be rude, but the "standard" you're going to impose is based on your own personal bias and preference. According to what you're proposing we might as well take out the whole random thoughts forum. But let's consider this, what's the point of the random thoughts forum? For posting random thoughts. Thoughts can come in variety of "sizes," large or small-> the administrator simply cannot be the "thought police." Call it censorship, if you will. Let's take a look at personal pictures. How much meaning can you pack into a post regarding someone's mug shot? Certainly not over 200 words.
Each forum has serves its own purpose.



I've actually thought about idea avant maintenant. My personal conclusion came out to be 1) It would be too complicated and time-consuming. How long will the voting take place for? a week? two weeks? And 2) The voter pool will be too small.



no offense intended but there have been longer posts

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