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Prototype
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Christians/Catholics I have a question.

Can you explain the existance of dinosaurs?

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Old Post 05-09-2002 04:56 AM
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seung ju
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how do you want it explained?

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Old Post 05-09-2002 10:17 AM
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Prototype
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The world was created in 7 days. Man was created on the 8th.

isnt that how it goes?

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Old Post 05-09-2002 10:53 AM
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micron
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quote:
Originally posted by Prototype
Can you explain the existance of dinosaurs?


there are several theories for this. but the one that i believe in, and rather more probable in the real world, is that God created the dinosaurs when he created the land animals. that would be day 6. the theory actually incorporates several other theories in theology and is perceived to be very rightwinged in nature. but what appeals to me the most is that it incorporates science in its justification. ..i'll try my best to explain. ill be using the king james version for accuracy purposes.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.


the Bible states in genesis 1:6-8 that when God created the seas, there was originally an expanse between two major bodies of waters, the bodies being above and below the firmament. then it continues and states in genesis 1:9 "let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear." this clearly indicates that the body of water below the firmament became the oceans we know today. however, the Bible fails to elaborate the body of water above the expanse and does not talk about it the rest of the book. until, that is, when the flood of noah takes place.

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.


here, in genesis 7:11, "fountains of the great deep" are "broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." from this we can hypothesis that there was indeed a body of water surrounding planet earth one time in our history. it was this body that caused the flood, "covering even the highest mountain tops". now, what does this have to do with the dinosaurs?

well, in theory, this body of water above the atmosphere, around where the ozone layer is presently, had a very positive impact to the organisms living then. this explains the incredibly long years of human lifespan prior to the flood. this was because the body of water above the atmosphere successfully blocked out all of the sun's harmful radiation. but when the "flood gates" opened, freeing the sea above, this protection no longer existed, constricting the lifespan for humans to 120 years.

also aside from this theory, it is scientifically proven from the air bubbles of salvaged fossilized amber that during the "age of dinosaurs" the oxygen level of the atmosphere was 30 percent versus the 20 percent we have now.

back to the original hypothesis of dinosaurs, God created the dinosaurs when he created animals. and in all actuality, the dinosaurs lived with man until the flood of noah, when the earth's environment changed radically. the body of water in the heavens that protected life living under the heavens was forever gone, and somehow, this is when the oxygen level of the atmosphere dropped to the current 20 percent (of course, all in theory). the combination of these things had an adverse effect on the dinosaurs, and they became extinct. after the drop of oxygen in the atmosphere , their small lung capacities could not keep up with the demand from their enormous bodies. and the radiation from the sun, never present before, lead to a mass extinction of the dinosaurs that managed to survive the flood. in short, the environment became too unfavorable to sustain the dinosaurs. and naturally, being larger, they were less able to adapt to the new environment after the flood of noah.

and the Bible does talk about dinosaurs, or the leviathan specifically, in jobs 3:8, 41:1, psalms 74:14, 104:26, and isaiah 27:1.

you asked a question. and here is an answer. and i wasted 30 minutes. :huh:

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Old Post 05-09-2002 11:23 AM
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seung ju
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thats one way of looking at it. i personally dont take the bible literally and believe its full of symbolism. like the 7 days is according to god, but since god exists out of time, 7 days to him can be a billion years to us. it's all on how you perceive it.

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Old Post 05-09-2002 12:08 PM
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Zero-Sen
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no way. If the bible says 7 days, it's seven days. Note they don't say Noah lived for 1 day, it says like 140 years or something. They knew the difference between days and BILLIONS of years.

If the Moon was as old as scientists tought it was it would have been impossible for neil armstrong to walk on it due to the large amount of collected space dust. (they expected fathoms, they got inches.)

as for the leviathan, it was noted that it had a tail as thick as a tree trunk and lived in rivers. Large sauropods were known to wade in water to reduce the weight on their legs. (kinda like me and the bath tub)

The size of the ark according to the bible was bigger than a football field, it could fit dinosaurs into it. Not all dinosaurs were large most were the size of chickens.

there are tons more but i forget em all.

Last edited by Zero-Sen on 05-09-2002 at 03:57 PM

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Old Post 05-09-2002 03:53 PM
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seung ju
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quote:
Originally posted by Zero-Sen
no way. If the bible says 7 days, it's seven days. Note they don't say Noah lived for 1 day, it says like 140 years or something. They knew the difference between days and BILLIONS of years.

that's b/c noah was human. god is not human and exists OUTSIDE of time. besides, god didnt write the bible, its god's word made known and inspired to man, so they wrote it the way that they understood it at the time. besides, 7 is god's number and a sign of perfection, so that also may be the reason why they wrote 7 days. but anyway, none of us can really know for sure, so let everybody have their own opinions on how to interpret the bible.

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Old Post 05-09-2002 04:05 PM
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MellowYellow
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i never got a straight answer to this so i'm very curious.... as for me.... i have no theories or explanations but...

jusun's is reasonable.... but i like seung ju's one about... how time for God is differnt for us .... like it could be the millions of years... and so... God made man after animals right? so it could make sense....

that. God made animals.... and millions of years (= 1 day ... or 2 days ... or wutever) later... God made Man.... which makes sense according to science and all too...... yea i like seung ju's theory.. that also explains how.. dinosaurs were created before humans.. but the time thing explains how.. the dinosaurs might have died out or wutever....

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Old Post 05-09-2002 06:47 PM
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Prototype
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well...


if he played around with dinosaurs for a couple million years...


humans have only been around for like 20 thousand years maybe -_-;




it just dont make sense.

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Old Post 05-09-2002 06:55 PM
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uNiece
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God's timing is not human's timing

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Old Post 05-14-2002 06:27 AM
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seung ju
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uniece is right, and the bible is not a written history of the world, so ppl need to quit treating it as such

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Old Post 05-14-2002 10:49 AM
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volcom strider
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im not a reptilian specie that has evolved or created. i'm a homosapien. i have no thoughts on how the-now extinct dinosaurs died. the only reptile that survived thru that shit is the crocodile, i think -_-a

anyways...those are just my thoughts. my point: who cares. we're alive, they're dead. you can't stop the inevitable, which is death.

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Old Post 05-15-2002 06:56 AM
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MellowYellow
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quote:
Originally posted by volcom strider
anyways...those are just my thoughts. my point: who cares. we're alive, they're dead. you can't stop the inevitable, which is death.


you're such a happy person ^^

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Old Post 05-15-2002 06:03 PM
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daNNy LuV 1TYM
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hmmm...i never realli thot about this b4. i think it's possible dinosaurs and humans could have lived at the same time. but i don't take the Bible literally, cuz most of it is, like someone else already pointed out, symbolism. like i dun believe adam and eve lived for 800 yrs. so i guess the only way i can explain the existence of the dinosaurs is that massive land and water organisms once roamed over the earth millions of years ago but died out due to an uknown cause bc the earth god created decided to get rid of them. hehe

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Old Post 05-17-2002 03:05 PM
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Crazydeb8ter
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quote:
Originally posted by seung ju
thats one way of looking at it. i personally dont take the bible literally and believe its full of symbolism. like the 7 days is according to god, but since god exists out of time, 7 days to him can be a billion years to us. it's all on how you perceive it.


I agree . However I do believe it is full of symbolism.



oh man, if dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time, humans would have been wiped out hahaha

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Old Post 05-18-2002 02:36 PM
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seung ju
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umm. i said it was full of symbolism too. but anyway, yeah, i agree, there would be no humans if we lived at the same time with dinosaurs. we would be lunch or they would accidently step on us or somethin.

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Old Post 05-18-2002 08:00 PM
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az0nd2r3
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i dont kno if im the person to answer this, and im also not sure if im correct in all this info. i also wont get too far into evolutionary thinking in this, even though it plays an important part in various other theories, it would just take too long to go in depth. im willing to talk about evoultion in sum other thread. this is just wut i believe...

oh and also major credit goes to The Revised & Expanded Answers Book, by don batten, ken ham, jonathan sardati, and carl wieland, for my answer to this. tried not to plagiarize, so i rephrased everything in my own words when possible

first, the bible sez dat the world was created in 6, not 7 days. God finished his work in 6 days, and saw that all was good, resting on the 7th, and setting it apart as holy, hence the jewish (or christian) sabbath. in the beginning, God created heaven and earth. the earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep water. the Spirit of God was hovering over the water. ok, so, day 1 was light; day 2 was the separation of sky and water, thru the creation of the horizon; day 3 was the combination of all water under the sky, creation of dry land and vegetation; day 4 was the creation of night and day as we know it today, w/ the sun to shine in the day, and moon at night, and the stars; day 5 was sea creatures and birds; and day 6 was land creatures and adam & eve. day 7 was rest. dinosaurs were land creatures

now to some various objections to the literal days that get involved here:
1) the sun was not created til day 4. how was there day and night for the first 3 days then?
a) the end of each day in Genesis, bible reads "evening and morning", first 3 days and next 3 days, the same way
b) sun is not required for day n night. there was light created b4 the sun was created. it was only after the creation of the sun, that it was to rule the day God had created. a spinning earth is implied by "evening and morning", and if the earth's rotating, w/ light, there would still be night & day.
2) there's some verse that says a day w/ the Lord is a thousand years. so it might be "long" days in genesis.
a) kind of like a metaphor (english class sucks), but deals with the second coming. it relates to the fact that it may seem like such a long time before Christ comes again, but is nothing to God
b) rest of the verse says "as a thousand years as one day", kind of cancelling the first part out, if used in reference to Genesis
3) billions of years doesn't limit God, but 6 days does.
a) more like the other way around. it is our own disbelief in 6 days that puts billions of years in, as "more probable". God does exist out of time, and created the flow of time as we see it. there's also different stuff on the theory of relativity, and light being "created on its way, since if stars are millions of lightyears away, how could we see them now (young earth - around 6,000 to a max around 10,000 yrs old)? some theory/explanation for this, not proven - time is not constant and gravity disorts time. familiar math equation 4 u: distance divided by rate = time. if distance measured of stars is accurate, and speed of light has always been the same, the only thing left is time that can be changed. i dont kno enough about this to go into more detail
4) Genesis 2 says diff about creation, w/ adam and eve
a) only a more detailed account of the creation of man, on day 6, not two contradicting stories

there's other arguments about meanings of diff jewish words and translations, but i dont know enough about dat. there's also bigger arguments that deal with evolution and the big bang and such, which is too much to put here. if neone would like to debate those topics, id be happy to.

now for dinosaurs.
evolutionists say dinosaurs evolved around 325 mil yrs ago, way b4 man, which already contradicts the bible - man and land animals came at the same time. Some catastrophic event wiped them all out 65 mil yrs ago. some say they evolved into birds and are still here today... bible sez came about the same time as humans and land animals, and coexisted. they could not have died about before people, cuz they didn't exist before ppl, and also bloodshed and death came after Adam's sinning. they were still able to live with man all the time they were around. i can't say that dinosaurs never ate people, and very likely there were numbers of people who became meals for dinosaurs. however, people weren't stupid and cavemen, as evolutionists like to portray "early men", who can't even really be considered "early" or "primitive", as in the sense we think of today. that's getting off topic though, i can discuss that elsewhere. there are also mentions of large creatures in the bible, that can easily be interpreted as dinosaurs - dragons, the leviathan, and the behemoth. the behemoth was described "chief of the ways of God", making sense for it to be the largest land creature ever made, possibly a brachiosaurus. also, why do so many cultures include references of dragons/dinosaurs? the sumerian gilgamesh slew a dragon; st. george slew a dragon; alexander the great and his men reported very large hissing reptiles in india that were worshipped; chinese culture deals a lot with dragons; several different early european accounts of smaller creatures, which today seem to describe various small dinosaurs, etc. there has also been hemoglobin found in some dinosaur fossils, a component of blood, which would have disintergrated if they were millions of years old, and also some unfossilized dinosaur bones have been found in alaska. some might say many dinosaurs specifically ate meat. first, this is not proven fact. many animals today have sharp teeth and claws, yet live largely on a vegetarian diet. pandas hv teeth and claws, and have been seen eating small animals before, but mainly eat bamboo (bet u didnt kno dat ). bears have large teeth and claws, but are mainly vegetarian, or live on fish. evolutionists say these animals have adapted. well, maybe they may have adapted, but meat eaters came about as a result of the curse of man, either as a mutation or fitted with new uses for their body parts. evolutionists believe that species improve over time, with natural selection, but the earth is actually degenerating. all things will fall to ruin over time, as a result of adam's sin. natural selection actually weeds out genetic information instead of accumulating it. from biblical view, many dinosaurs were wiped out as the flood came, and the ones taken aboard noah's ark didn't necessarily need to be large, as pointed out by zero-sen. they also may have been infants or children or adolescents. dinosaur and other fossils mainly originated around the flood, as sediment, rain and mud quickly covered creatures, trapping them and preserving them , as more layers piled on. the ones that lived on the ark may have died out due to inability to adjust to the new environment they were now in, and many creationists believe that the one and only ice age occurred following the flood. animals today are extinct because their environment was destroyed somehow, by man or naturally, or maybe killed by man. we have our endangered species program to try and save endangered animals nowadays. why are animals disappearing? man killing them, lack of environment, food, disease, catastrophes...what happened to the dinosaurs? don't know, there are many possibilites, but scientists say its a mystery :omg: if dinosaurs lived alongside man, it really should be no mystery at all why dinosaurs died out. ppl also dont really kno if all dinosaurs are extinct for sure. explorers have described dinosaur-like creatures in the congo, and mammoth-like elephants in nepal. one previously thought extinct animal is the coelacanth, a extremely strange looking fish, once put as an evolutionary transitional link, have been found alive today.

last thoughts...
the bible doesn't contradict science. it contradicts evolution and naturalism and humanism, the underlying beliefs in evolution. evolution is not science, it is unproven, can be disproved by facts, when interpreted from a creationist view.

facts dont speak for themselves, they are interpreted according to a bias. evolutionary bias is naturalism. creationist bias is special creation by God. it is a question of which bias is right, not who is biased. it is up to u to decide for yourself after looking at the arguments (dont want to force my beliefs on u). seriously, im willing to debate with someone over evolution and creation.

to seung ju:
-many do belive that the bible is a literal account of world's history, as far as it goes, but it obviously doesnt include everyones history and everything that vere happened, because it was not intended as such, and only included neccesary parts to get across God's message of salvation thru Christ

-the bible was inspired by God. i agree with dat, but as for accuracy and interpretation, the different authors knew what they were doing. accuracy and fitting together of the bible is amazing, with prophecies and such. yes, there are contradictions, but have no significance in changing the story. god inspired but didn't dictate. these people were chosen by God, and very accurate.

-yes, the bible is full of symbolism, and facts also. i believe dat Genesis is fact. other bks like Revelation is symbolism and prophecy that will be fact when they happen.

to jusun:
jeez u kno a lot

to daNNy LuV 1TYM: well, i believe the bible can be taken literally, including ages of old testament people. ages of ppl declined after the fall of man, w/ sin entering the world, and even more rapidly after the flood.

to the rest: willing to take corrections if i made ne mistakes

sheesh, i spent like an hour doing this...it would make a good essay...gosh, its even longer than jusun's

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Old Post 05-19-2002 12:21 PM
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Alchemist
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Inherit the wind is a good book to read about this subject

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Old Post 05-19-2002 06:16 PM
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micron
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yes.
there is a theory stating that a 'day' in creation may be thousands of years, as supported by the following verses.

psalm 90:4
for a thousand years in thy [God’s] sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

2 peter 3:8
but, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


yet, this cannot be possible scientifically, as God created the plants (day 3) a ‘day’ before he created the sun and the moon (day 4). Had the ‘days’ of creation been several millions years apart, the plants would have had to survive these millions of years without the support of the sun. of course, one may then argue that in that respect, creation cannot be proven nor possible scientifically altogether, and i suppose this is so. what it comes down to then, i suppose, is believing what you feel more comfortable with, as everything is speculation, even evolution and its so-called scientific evidences. i guess what’s important is not to be judgmental about other people’s opinion and to accept that there isn’t any solid evidences that would prove a single theory correct. observation is the key to scientific conclusion, and I’m sure no one will be able to claim that they have seen creation take place, be it through God or spontaneous evolution.

but what i believe, or would rather like to believe, is that this world is merely some 6000 years old. radical? no, as this is a conservative view of Christian theology. perhaps i lean towards this theory because its very elegant. but then I’d rather like to view and understand our creation through the means of science and rationality.

…so I guess im still searching. seeking, exploring, to find the truth to this all. what im rather afraid of is growing up, and not having the time to think things like this. i'll have a job, a wife, and perhaps a kid or two. and i'll no longer have time, to stop, think, and appreciate. eh. life is depressing.

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Old Post 05-26-2002 05:20 AM
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seung ju
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i dunno, i thought it was proven that the earth is over a billion years old or somethin through the use of carbon dating and stuff like that. but i agree, no one can say what happened during creation b/c no one was around to watch it. but big bang theory, i dunno, that's kinda stretchin it, b/c i thought in science stuff had to have a beginning and end, so what was around to create that little spec of dust that exploded into billions of galaxies? i dunno, i'm not much of a science buff, so i might be wrong about the whole theory.

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Old Post 05-26-2002 09:17 AM
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