What's everyone think?

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Superiority, just with comensation towards minorities. I am aware there has been injustice towards many people (including my own) by many other people (including my own). There is now the mentality that we must make ammends by showing we no longer feel that way but at the expense of what is right. School pick minorities over White people as to not seem racist, employment is quite the same. While this is a sidetack, with women there has been no super great injustice, ok fine they could not vote and were denied education, but not any genocide. Females are trying to gain compensation while ruining the issue of fairness. If a woman is denied a job she says its sexual discrimination, even if she is clearly less qualified than a man seeking that post. There have been many movements for White Christian supremecy (ie Ku Klux Klan, Nazis) and are viewed as horrible things, feminism is just a lower form as such veiled under the mask of compensation.

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in my opinion the only reason things like sexism and racism is around is because people just keep bringing it up. It becomes a constant part of our lives and society and it's carved into the minds of everybody. It's the small things, like how they always have the mom in the commercials that's using the Jet Dry or the Tide.

If feminists want equality then they'll GET equality. This includes institution the military draft on not only men, but women too. But some women don't want this, which is frickin stupid.

anyway... uh what are you asking?

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to huby40 well, it's not true........even though females want equality, they're not just gonna get it...the men are constantly taking advantage of women...they only view them as housekeepers or their "sex toys". and how is that "getting equality"?

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Gina, you made some terribly wrong assumptions and generalizations about men in that post. :huh: . That mentality is one of the things that feeds feminism on (i advocate feminism to an extent btw), "feigned oppresion." Stick to real life facts from today, not from the '50s. You very well know that men don't all view womyn this way. And in my opinion, i think the mainstream feminism that we all hear about is after superiority, and not equality. Feminists can mask it all the want with the word equality, but everyone can see this method of "selective equality." Someone give me an actual example of a womyn getting paid less because she was just a womyn (because i bet she wasn't as qualified as the other who is juxtaposed with her). If they want equality, fight to be in the draft and other "not aesthetically pleasing rights" no one advocates this for women except some small group. And if they worked hard enough they'd get it. If a womyn wants to be taken seriously, dress more professionally and not provocatively (for one thing)...it's common sense. Womyn have earned their own reputation for the most part so they should stop blaming men. We're not a scapegoat.

Yes, i used that spelling of womyn jocosely to mock it slightly of how it's absurd in my opinion. I do have kind of a habit of writing it that way anyhow

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I have to agree with your PsychoSnowman
there are as many definentions of feminism as there are feminists. First they state they want equality, but then they want special treatment as well. In modern society they bring it upon themselves.
yes there is discrimination in the world, being a women is one of them, being an ethnic minority is another factor. There are many factors that bring about discrimination. Men maybe be taking advantage of women, but then again women are openly accepting being taken advantage of. I have talked to a few girls who call themsevles feminists, and each of them have conflicting ideas. How can the idea of feminism even exist if there isn't a goal or consistant definition. I seriously doubt that today's man views a women as a housekeeper or a "sex toy" in seriousness, of course in joking they will always be viewed in a stereotype, but that's why it's a stereotype. Gina, your arguments are rather archaic I think.
:satisfy:

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I stand indifferent on this subject. (why is everyone using big words?)

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People are different. Get use to it.

First women say:

"Men and women are different."

Then they say:

"Women and men are equal."

About 1970's they say:

"Women are independent and strong."

Nowadays they say:

"Women and men are equal, but women are kinda better."


I say, "WHOA! WHERE THE F*CK DID THAT COME FROM?"

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BTW

Women want equality but they don't think its ok to be drafted for the military. a big 'ol flick off from AKIRA to all those women!

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I also see it as women want equality when it comes to their advantage, but when it doesn't, they discorse and regress into the old ways of "i'm a women" and "women shouldn't do that"
so equality really can't exist freely in our society, there is always limitations to it
then also can be thought of what kinda of equality, do you want equality that a white american man has, or the equality that a black american man has.
there are different levels of equality are addressed.
more severe examples r tribe social roles defining gender.
i think that it's just a constant contradiction in today's society
btw, it is true that women are paid less than men in salary jobs.
there have been several surveys, though it's not by a large extent anymore.

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salary is negotiable in the jobs people speak of where women get payed less, no? Could it simply be that women wish for more but say nothing then use it as their valuable "evidence" for discrimination when it's all their fault all along. In other words, are men just more forward and persistant to get a higher wage on a general basis throughout the country? And the passiveness in women exists generally throughout the US in this way as well. Leading us in a direction where men generally work harder for a higher wage and get it, and women generally don't ask or get it and then follow this with complaining about discrimination. Just a pondering correct me if i'm wrong.

Last edited by PsychoSnowman on 04-30-2002 at 01:29 PM

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i totally agree that women are equal to men and no man is superior over any other. but i got a question wats up wit that group Oxygen? i mean i dont see a prob and if they r talkin about the woman in agfanistan they hav no power to over power a foreign government.

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I think salary is negotiable to a certain extent
that depends on a person's experience
a fresh grad has very little negotiating power compared to someone who has 12 years of experience
perhaps psycho's points r quite valid, no reports show women's interviewing and negotiating techniques or mens.

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i hate it when political people try and use "minorites" (not really, women outnumber us) as ways to have leverage over someone else whose of the norm. I was just watching a really old movie in my gov't class and they showed a vice pres candidate (pre-candidacy) at the Democratic convention in 1984 who was saying something to this effect "Vote for me, and you'll show and send a greater message to the people of america of equality." It was prepostorous. What kind of absent minded proclamation is that? Vote for the reason that i am what i am. "uhhh, yeah i may not be as qualified as the other one but i'm a woman!" Thats stupidity. You vote for a candidate because of what they stand for not for what they are on the outside.

Women despise being "not equal", yet they indulge in it when it's convenient. It's simply contradictory, and more modernly labled "like a woman" to do so.

They need to stop being Victicrats (NY radio host's lexicon, not mine...i like it though ) and take responsibility. The government and labor union isn't going to be "chivalrous" for you. So stop unconciously expecting it, and complaining when you have to work hard for something and may not get it immediately.

Disclaimer: Characterizations may not apply to everyone. If they don't, don't take offense.

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quote:

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Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
i hate it when political people try and use "minorites" (not really, women outnumber us) as ways to have leverage over someone else whose of the norm.

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i'm not sure what you meant by that ritorte alchemist, but the point of the point was that of the same reason to abolish affirmative action. Don't choose simply for the sake of choosing a minority, but choose for the person. It wasn't that women shouldn't be in powerful positions, but that they should EARN it.

What did you mean by that remark? At first i thought it was some kind of insult but now i'm not sure. I'm pakistani btw. so participating in a all white walk? i suppose i could, but i'm not standing for all of the norm to rule forever, just the most qualified.

in case you didn't want to read that...Difference doesn't supercede qualifications.

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quote:

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Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
i'm not sure what you meant by that ritorte alchemist, but the point of the point was that of the same reason to abolish affirmative action. Don't choose simply for the sake of choosing a minority, but choose for the person. It wasn't that women shouldn't be in powerful positions, but that they should EARN it.

What did you mean by that remark? At first i thought it was some kind of insult but now i'm not sure. I'm pakistani btw. so participating in a all white walk? i suppose i could, but i'm not standing for all of the norm to rule forever, just the most qualified.

in case you didn't want to read that...Difference doesn't supercede qualifications.

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another thing i can't help feeling is that male chauvinist groups are nothing more than anti-feminist groups. What do you guys think about male chauvinist groups? Maybe i should make this a new topic...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Akira
BTW

Women want equality but they don't think its ok to be drafted for the military. a big 'ol flick off from AKIRA to all those women!

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AAHAHAH yes. That needed to be said. If they want equality they better practice what they preach and aim for, because it's actions like this that make most people skeptical and indifferent to their cause.
However, with salaries, it is a dissapointing reminder of how "backwards" our society can be. Both in sports and in the workplace, inequality exists unbounded. For example, the Compaq WTA and USTA tennis tournament held at the end of the year. The winner for the men's draw earns 1,000,000+. However for the women's, it is a "mere" 700,000. Now, it is true that the WTA may be underfunded, less so than the USTA, but that in itself does not make sense. Most people (myself not included) have said that they enjoy women's tennis more because it is enjoyable to watch. Now to get more viewings, ESPN and other networks like that would give Women's tennis more coverage. Thus, the statement of underfunding for Women's Tennis itself is baffling. Perhaps that is not an example of inequality but more like an example of a Women's organization unwilling to dish out some cash.

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Whoa, what is this about?

I THINK I know what I'm talking about... uhh... I think mostly feminism is equality. But in some cases, I have to say that women use it to their advantage, and take the easy road out, by using the excuse of oppression when it doesn't qualify. Overall though? There are still way too many places where women ARE oppressed, and so feminism isn't too overdone.


Did that make sense?

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