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v8what?
DSM > You

Registered: Mar 2003
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Would you please elaborate, oh great god the 1320.

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Old Post 03-29-2003 10:20 PM
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touch_my_butt
raging hetero

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Oaktree
Posts: 269
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quote:
Originally posted by marvinOPPA
depends on how long the strip is and how much torque each car has and how much they weigh...

wait wait let me try
LMFAO...hmmm 18 wheeler truck has 360 hp and cadillac sts has only 300hp....truck wins right?

im sorry dats jus not fair here, this is a lil better..
4dr 2.5 rs subaru...165 hp
4dr teg gsr...170 hp
who wins? answer that one and ill give u cookie




dont give a xiet?...LS turbo runs 13 flat on 12 psi....GG

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Old Post 03-30-2003 08:20 AM
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touch_my_butt
raging hetero

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Oaktree
Posts: 269
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quote:
Originally posted by True Life
UMMMMM GEE LET ME THINK... 540 would smoke a gsr.

dude, the 540i STOCK does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, and the quarter in 14 flat. you seriously think a stock gsr will do the quarter in 14 flat? your friend is doing something seriously wrong.

anyway, straightaways can get real boring... let me get in on that gumtape deathmatch.





fo realz...my friend ran his 01' 540i in 14.3 at the track...you reallie think a stock gsr can run faster than 14.3?...more like in the high 15's...you got a white driver driving the 540i when you were racing or sumting...even a stock gsr hatch runs in the mid 14's

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Old Post 03-30-2003 08:24 AM
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v8what?
DSM > You

Registered: Mar 2003
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You know, Prototype, I’m still waiting for a retort.

Saying that people who drive straight all day know more about racing and tuning is bull. Are you saying, for example, that Auto-x drivers and, hell, ProRally drivers/navigators don’t know anything about their engines? Have you ever participated in either event? I’m thinking no. And to call me a kid, with having no knowledge as to whom I actually am, shows your, lack of, maturity.

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Old Post 04-08-2003 12:34 AM
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Prototype
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quote:
Originally posted by v8what?
You know, Prototype, I’m still waiting for a retort.

Saying that people who drive straight all day know more about racing and tuning is bull. Are you saying, for example, that Auto-x drivers and, hell, ProRally drivers/navigators don’t know anything about their engines? Have you ever participated in either event? I’m thinking no. And to call me a kid, with having no knowledge as to whom I actually am, shows your, lack of, maturity.




v8what, how many people do you know, let me repeat because you seem to be blind. How many people do you know, that drive pro-rally or auto cross?

Your failure to use punctuation properly is enough.

Saying that driving autoX in a civic takes skill, is just as dumb.



I'm still waiting for a real response. Not one that circumvents the argument.


Which takes more skill; Drag Racing, or AutoCrossing your moms Civic?

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Old Post 04-08-2003 03:00 AM
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v8what?
DSM > You

Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:
Originally posted by Prototype
v8what, how many people do you know, let me repeat because you seem to be blind. How many people do you know, that drive pro-rally or auto cross?

Your failure to use punctuation properly is enough.

Saying that driving autoX in a civic takes skill, is just as dumb.

I'm still waiting for a real response. Not one that circumvents the argument.

Which takes more skill; Drag Racing, or AutoCrossing your moms Civic?


Well, I don’t see how it would help this 'discussion' to list all of my friends in family who are involved in motor sports, but whatever.

My background: Lets first start with my dad, who used to Auto-X and road race a Porsche 914/6 (FYI, the one with the six cylinder). I pretty much grew up on Go-Karts and Jet-Skis, taking a few trophies home at local events. I now Auto-x a mildly modified DSM regularly.

I have a cousin who participates in the SCCA ProRally and is racing in Rim Of The World next month in a Lancer Evo 5. I have countless other friends who do both Auto-Xing and track racing, none of which on a professional level but have been in a few magazines.

After all this, I think it’s only fair that you do the same.

As to the remark about my use of punctuation: Copy and paste my last post into Microsoft Word and see if any errors pop up. I did and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

As to the real discussion at hand: Do you even know what an Auto-x is? Doesn’t seem like it. It takes ridiculous amounts of skill in order to pilot a car in such small room. Do you know anything about mass, gravity, or momentum? How about heel-toe shifting or left foot breaking? Then we can talk about setting up the proper suspension, tires, proper power levels, etc, etc, all day long.

Now for drag racing: Now I admit, as I did in my previous post, that building an engine for maximum horsepower use does take skill, especially when you’re working with small displacement. Blasting down the 1320, however, does not. I’m willing to bet I could take anyone with a basic knowledge of transmissions and teach them how drag race in a day or two.

-Cheers

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Old Post 04-08-2003 05:44 AM
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Prototype
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quote:
Originally posted by v8what?
Well, I don’t see how it would help this 'discussion' to list all of my friends in family who are involved in motor sports, but whatever.

My background: Lets first start with my dad, who used to Auto-X and road race a Porsche 914/6 (FYI, the one with the six cylinder). I pretty much grew up on Go-Karts and Jet-Skis, taking a few trophies home at local events. I now Auto-x a mildly modified DSM regularly.

I have a cousin who participates in the SCCA ProRally and is racing in Rim Of The World next month in a Lancer Evo 5. I have countless other friends who do both Auto-Xing and track racing, none of which on a professional level but have been in a few magazines.

After all this, I think it’s only fair that you do the same.

As to the remark about my use of punctuation: Copy and paste my last post into Microsoft Word and see if any errors pop up. I did and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

As to the real discussion at hand: Do you even know what an Auto-x is? Doesn’t seem like it. It takes ridiculous amounts of skill in order to pilot a car in such small room. Do you know anything about mass, gravity, or momentum? How about heel-toe shifting or left foot breaking? Then we can talk about setting up the proper suspension, tires, proper power levels, etc, etc, all day long.

Now for drag racing: Now I admit, as I did in my previous post, that building an engine for maximum horsepower use does take skill, especially when you’re working with small displacement. Blasting down the 1320, however, does not. I’m willing to bet I could take anyone with a basic knowledge of transmissions and teach them how drag race in a day or two.

-Cheers



mass, gravity, momentum, heel-toe shifting, left foot breaking?

Btw, in microsoft word, I could, use commas, like this, and I bet, that you wouldnt, get a single, punctuation error?

"heel toe shifting" is done while downshifting, because when you downshift, you're shifting to a smaller gear, your RPM's jump. when cornering hard, this can cause your tires to exceed their maximum traction and break loose. So instead of just downshifting, or easing out the clutch slowly.. you match engine speed and the lower gears speed.

Do you want me to tell you exactly how it is done? I can do that too.

"left foot braking" is done most often by FWD cars when they enter a corner faster than they probably should.

Heel toe to downshift while entering the corner, and apply throttle while braking with the left foot. This causes the rear tires in a FWD car to lock, giving the front tires more traction than the rear. This is oversteer, and so you correct for oversteer in the only way possible. Accelerate out of it.

wow that was incredibly hard to explain driftmaster2000.

setting up the proper suspension? Do you know anyone with the equipment to tune a cars suspension for maximum tire traction while cornering? adjusting toe and camber so you have more tire on the asphalt?

Tires. lol are you serious? I'd buy swampers for the mud, paddle tires for the sand.

Btw: Mass, Gravity and Momentum?

Do you mean inertia? or perhaps, PMI?

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Old Post 04-08-2003 10:51 AM
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v8what?
DSM > You

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quote:
Originally posted by Prototype
Mass, gravity, momentum, heel-toe shifting, left foot breaking?

Btw, in Microsoft word, I could, use commas, like this, and I bet that you wouldn’t, get a single, punctuation error?

"Heel toe shifting" is done while downshifting, because when you downshift, you're shifting to a smaller gear, your RPM's jump. When cornering hard, this can cause your tires to exceed their maximum traction and break loose. So instead of just downshifting, or easing out the clutch slowly. You match engine speed and the lower gears speed.

Do you want me to tell you exactly how it is done? I can do that too.

"Left foot braking" is done most often by FWD cars when they enter a corner faster than they probably should.

Heel toe to downshift while entering the corner, and apply throttle while braking with the left foot. This causes the rear tires in a FWD car to lock, giving the front tires more traction than the rear. This is over steer, and so you correct for over steer in the only way possible. Accelerate out of it.

Wow that was incredibly hard to explain driftmaster2000.

Setting up the proper suspension? Do you know anyone with the equipment to tune a cars suspension for maximum tire traction while cornering? Adjusting toe and camber so you have more tire on the asphalt?

Tires. Lol are you serious? I'd buy swampers for the mud, paddle tires for the sand.

Btw: Mass, Gravity and Momentum?

Do you mean inertia? Or perhaps, PMI?


For arguments sake, I put your post into Word and surprise, surprise, your comma ridden sentence came up as an error. Fragments, un-capitalized letters, and bears! Oh my!

Now, lets move on to your inability to make a decent argument. Instead of responding to all of the points I made, you only answer a handful. Mind you, these points could easily be answered by any magazine racer. Then after your attempt to “call me out”, I simply ask for you to do the same, yet you do not.

Your ignorance on tires proves how unknowledgeable you actually are on the matter. Then there are always your ‘witty’ assumptions, you know when you ASS-U-ME…

And then we have your attacks. It seems, according to you at least, the only way anyone can have voice is if they actually race, know some one who does, or owns equipment. Frankly, I fit all three categories and still you will probably put up more attacks onto my credibility.

Then, there is your silence on hand about the REAL argument: Drag racing verses pretty much everything else. You have failed, with the past two posts, to make any decent argument on drag racing’s side. What you have done is attempt to degrade any one who doesn’t agree with you.

Next time you post, at least try to make discussion.

-Cheers

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Old Post 04-08-2003 09:14 PM
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Prototype
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quote:
Originally posted by v8what?
Well, I don’t see how it would help this 'discussion' to list all of my friends in family who are involved in motor sports, but whatever.

My background: Lets first start with my dad, who used to Auto-X and road race a Porsche 914/6 (FYI, the one with the six cylinder). I pretty much grew up on Go-Karts and Jet-Skis, taking a few trophies home at local events. I now Auto-x a mildly modified DSM regularly.

I have a cousin who participates in the SCCA ProRally and is racing in Rim Of The World next month in a Lancer Evo 5. I have countless other friends who do both Auto-Xing and track racing, none of which on a professional level but have been in a few magazines.

After all this, I think it’s only fair that you do the same.

As to the remark about my use of punctuation: Copy and paste my last post into Microsoft Word and see if any errors pop up. I did and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

As to the real discussion at hand: Do you even know what an Auto-x is? Doesn’t seem like it. It takes ridiculous amounts of skill in order to pilot a car in such small room. Do you know anything about mass, gravity, or momentum? How about heel-toe shifting or left foot breaking? Then we can talk about setting up the proper suspension, tires, proper power levels, etc, etc, all day long.

Now for drag racing: Now I admit, as I did in my previous post, that building an engine for maximum horsepower use does take skill, especially when you’re working with small displacement. Blasting down the 1320, however, does not. I’m willing to bet I could take anyone with a basic knowledge of transmissions and teach them how drag race in a day or two.

-Cheers




"Now, lets move on to your inability to make a decent argument. Instead of responding to all of the points I made, you only answer a handful. Mind you, these points could easily be answered by any magazine racer. Then after your attempt to “call me out”, I simply ask for you to do the same, yet you do not.

Your ignorance on tires proves how unknowledgeable you actually are on the matter. Then there are always your ‘witty’ assumptions, you know when you ASS-U-ME…

And then we have your attacks. It seems, according to you at least, the only way anyone can have voice is if they actually race, know some one who does, or owns equipment. Frankly, I fit all three categories and still you will probably put up more attacks onto my credibility.

Then, there is your silence on hand about the REAL argument: Drag racing verses pretty much everything else. You have failed, with the past two posts, to make any decent argument on drag racing’s side. What you have done is attempt to degrade any one who doesn’t agree with you. "


touché

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Old Post 04-08-2003 11:09 PM
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v8what?
DSM > You

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quote:
Originally posted by Prototype
touché


Ooook?

Why don’t you ever respond to an entire post? I thought that breaking up my posts would be easy enough for you to respond to the points I make. It seems like that has yet to work, maybe this will...

1.) What makes you so qualified to determine which takes more skill? I’ve answered with my background, it’s only fair that you do the same.

2.) Please make an argument as to how throwing a car down the 1320 takes more skill than hard cornering.

Why is this so difficult?

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Old Post 04-17-2003 12:24 AM
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Pylons
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I see a lot of bickering in here. Just for the record, I'm here because I know V8What, and he keeps linking me to this rather entertaining thread.

Anyway, I just have to say that trying to compare drag racing with road racing/autocrossing is like comparing apples to oranges.

When I first got into drag racing, I thought it was easy because I had an underpowered V6 where you could stomp on the gas and the car moves forward... was boring, kinda like getting on the freeway. But then I got a car with some power under the hood (Chevy 350 TPI), and realized that if I just stomped on the gas, the car would stay put squeeling the tire while the competition laughed at his rear view mirror. Drag racing does take some driving skill and learning shift points, etc. And my understanding is that driving is only half of the race, and tuning the engine and rear suspension is the other half. Personally, I found the straight line to be a little boring. I am also not one to tune engine internals, so I decided drag racing wasn't my thing and went to autocross and road racing (and maybe club/pro rally navigating), where tuning suspension counts more than the engine.

But it can't be said that autocrossing and road racing doesn't take skill. Choosing the correct line through some S turns, drifting (yes, drifting), and smoothness are key to winning. Tuning is less of a factor (although still important), and driving skill is the main focus in these events. Just ask the '91 Escort who is beating the top modded WRXs and RX7s in my autocross region. After 5 years in autocrossing, I'm still trying to refine my skills so I can be smooth enough through the slaloms and turns to get some winning times.

I should also point out that the ideal cars for drag racing is different from those for road racing/autocross. I have to agree that "there is no replacement for displacement" for drag racing. Sure, you can turbo charge a 4 banger, but we all know you can put a blower on a V8 too. But for road racing, those big engine blocks get to heavy to take the turns. My dad, who has drag raced and road raced longer than me, can't get his mustang to beat my times in my import.

There, I said my piece, take it as you will and stop whining!!!

Last edited by Pylons on 04-17-2003 at 08:27 AM

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Old Post 04-17-2003 08:20 AM
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Prototype
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quote:
Originally posted by v8what?
Ooook?

Why don’t you ever respond to an entire post? I thought that breaking up my posts would be easy enough for you to respond to the points I make. It seems like that has yet to work, maybe this will...

1.) What makes you so qualified to determine which takes more skill? I’ve answered with my background, it’s only fair that you do the same.

2.) Please make an argument as to how throwing a car down the 1320 takes more skill than hard cornering.

Why is this so difficult?




Why was it so difficult to read my posts?


and have any of you realized yet, after i've said it at least once..

that i'm not comparing the professional racing of funny cars on a pro bracket drag circuit, to that of a pro autocross or rally circuit/event?

The original argument was, that its harder to drive a near stock car than it is to drag race.

drag racers arent just drivers, they're tuners too.

but most of these "autoX" kiddies couldnt tell me how a diff works.

as for all of this "suspension tuning" talk.

have either of you ever four wheel'd? quads, trucks, cars, 3 wheelers, bikes?

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Old Post 04-17-2003 10:41 AM
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Prototype
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an argument, for why a 19 year old with a 10,000$ spending limit would find it harder to create decent times in the 1320, then to be able to auto cross decently?

btw, decent meaning 12's and under.



do you have any argument against that?

The kid who built up his nova or whatever, would destroy the kid who tries to autoX his 240sx.

and dont bullshit about drifting, etc.

you know that a gutted nova, which it would probably be.. weighs about as much as whatever you could buy with your 10k (maybe even less).

and while the nova might have a higher pmi, the ability to do 0-60 in under 4 seconds more than makes up for it.

winner = nova

and dont say that drag racers dont know how to drive.

anyone who can rebuild a 427 will know how to hold their own in a rwd car.

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Old Post 04-17-2003 10:49 AM
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Pylons
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Prototype, I see that your whole goal on here is flaming. Please read my post again and quote ANY place where I specifically said autocrossing was harder than drag racing. ALL I said was that they are DIFFERENT. And your comment about gutting a Nova is just as stupid as those ricers who say "Yeah? Well if I had a turboed Civic on NOS, I'd beat your Nova". Like I said earlier, duh, you could put a blower on the Nova too, and guess what, you could gut an Import. Fastest cars on the autocross circuit are: RX7s, Miatas, and gutted CRXs, because you'd have to take the engine out of a Nova to make it weight less than 1500 pounds. If a Nova would be a great autocrosser, people would be racing them, and I invite you to take a Nova with ANY engine and race against my 2.0L I4. If you have as little experience in cornering as it seems, you won't even come close.

For the record, there are stock Miatas and RX7s that beat the highly modded Corvair, Mustangs, and Corvettes (the drivers of all those vehicles are over 40 and have years of experience).

Who's bullshitting about drifting??? Drifting has been an important skill in road racing since the '60s. READ UP!!!

Also, you made a comment about paddles and mud tires... you know that American Autocross is on pavement, right??? Just checking.

But anyway, I'm still maintaining the opinion that (and please read this carefully) They are 2 different sports, take 2 different kinds of skills, and I admit you'd probably kick my @$$ on a drag strip, but that my road racing skills are probably more developed than your (although I can't tell for sure until I see you race that Nova around some cones)

Last edited by Pylons on 04-17-2003 at 09:23 PM

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Old Post 04-17-2003 08:48 PM
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Pylons
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"and dont say that drag racers dont know how to drive."

Reading through my first post again, I don't see anywhere where I said drag racers can't drive. I mentioned the skills involved in keeping the rubber on the ground, the need to accurately find shift points, and reaction time makes a difference when it comes to choosing a winner. How does that say that drag racers can't drive??? Do you even READ my post, or just start flaming because I made a reply? I could have said drag racers rule and you would have flamed me.

"drag racers arent just drivers, they're tuners too.

but most of these "autoX" kiddies couldnt tell me how a diff works."

Once again, reading my first post, I mentioned my limited abilities to tune an engine. However, talk to autocross people and you'd realize that they know the benefits of a limited slip differential on the autocross circuit, and not only do most of them know how they work, some of them even converted their own. We also understand why the propper camber puts more rubber on the ground in hard corners, and how many hours of test runs it takes to dial in a suspension setup. The "kids" you refer to are the ones who come to ONE autocross race, thinking cut lowering springs and an intake and exhaust will make them win, then they lose the race and go home. The people who come back every month, like me, stay after the race to talk to other racers about tire choices, suspension options, and engine tuning. Similarly, I am sure you hang around the pits and see if you can find ways to get more power out of your dragster's engine and drive train.

So once again, they are DIFFERENT, not one better than the other. As for who would beat who, put the Angels in a football game against the Raiders, and guess who would win. Then make them all play baseball, different story. I'm not saying one is better than the other. You can not compare.

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Old Post 04-17-2003 09:14 PM
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v8what?
DSM > You

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quote:
Originally posted by Prototype
drag racers arent just drivers, they're tuners too.

but most of these "autoX" kiddies couldnt tell me how a diff works.


That’s just a generalization. No point in defending against ignorance.

quote:
as for all of this "suspension tuning" talk.

have either of you ever four wheel'd? quads, trucks, cars, 3 wheelers, bikes?

Hate to break it to you, but I grew up on quads and bikes. Right now my father and I own two Honda Pilots. Is that sufficient enough?

quote:
an argument, for why a 19 year old with a 10,000$ spending limit would find it harder to create decent times in the 1320, then to be able to auto cross decently?

English, do you speak it? Well Ill try to decipher this mangled excuse for a sentence.

If you’re saying that a Nova that could run 12s on the quarter mile would run circles on an Auto-x course, you’re horribly mistaken. That statement proves you have no knowledge of anything Auto-x related. Pylons said it best, you could gut a CRX and still have 8k left over for engine and suspension mods.

quote:
Originally posted by Pylons
I should also point out that the ideal cars for drag racing is different from those for road racing/autocross.
Nice to see you finally made it, but I have a gripe with that comment. Remember when I ran against Mike's t/a? It was damn close.

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Old Post 04-17-2003 09:46 PM
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Pylons
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quote:
Originally posted by v8what?
That’s just a generalization. No point in defending against ignorance.


Very true. I could point out all the kids around here that take their daddy's new Cobra Mustang to the drag strip and can't even get low 15s.

quote:
Originally posted by v8what?
Nice to see you finally made it, but I have a gripe with that comment. Remember when I ran against Mike's t/a? It was damn close.


Just proves that there is such thing as bad driving in drag racing

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Old Post 04-17-2003 09:57 PM
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aka
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quote:
Originally posted by marvinOPPA
cars dont always run the way the factory says it should run...im sure if u take 3 different 540's ur gonna get 3 different hp readings...there are wat me and my friends like to call "gifted cars"...cars that for sum strange reason...are completely stock yet run faster then they should. there are also cars we call "shitters" ...which should be running significantly faster then they are....the cars that people dont break in and jus fuck up from the beginning


well i guess ur friend had a major shitter becuase..in general..a gsr against a 540i is just a joke.

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Old Post 04-19-2003 04:55 AM
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v8what?
DSM > You

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So, now what? Is this over?

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Old Post 05-08-2003 09:18 PM
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