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Jusunlee.com Forums > Intellectuals > Debate > Don't ask, don't tell
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PsychoSnowman
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Don't ask, don't tell

what does everyone think about this military policy that allows queer people the chance to serve their country,...at the cost of hiding their lifestyle from everyone? (in hopes not to be booted from the military by any leak of information)

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Last edited by PsychoSnowman on 01-07-2004 at 03:17 AM

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Old Post 01-07-2004 03:13 AM
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C4 Black Powder
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The purpose of separating the sexes in the military, is to prevent sexual distractions. Having openly homosexual people in the military kind of defeats that purpose, especially when you consider the naturally promiscuous nature of men as a gender.

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Old Post 01-07-2004 08:09 PM
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MasWusHot
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if they let them get some ass now and then they wouldnt be goin after the guys muehehe but i think this is directed to alreasy gay people joining the military .. iono...it should be their allowed to be gay but no sleepin wit the other men ahaha

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Old Post 01-07-2004 10:57 PM
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kryogenix
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quote:
Originally posted by MasWusHot
if they let them get some ass now and then they wouldnt be goin after the guys muehehe but i think this is directed to alreasy gay people joining the military .. iono...it should be their allowed to be gay but no sleepin wit the other men ahaha




i disagree. c4 black powder is right. i'd feel uneasy if a gay guy had to share the same quarters as me. it takes the mind off fighting and puts it on avoiding being analy raped

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Old Post 01-07-2004 11:03 PM
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KeN VeRsUs RyU
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quote:
Originally posted by kryogenix
i disagree. c4 black powder is right. i'd feel uneasy if a gay guy had to share the same quarters as me. it takes the mind off fighting and puts it on avoiding being analy raped


why don't you crawl out of your crib and join the real world. Just because you're homosexual doesn't mean your more prone to being a rapist. Those are two different things.

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Old Post 01-07-2004 11:38 PM
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MasWusHot
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quote:
Originally posted by kryogenix
i disagree. c4 black powder is right. i'd feel uneasy if a gay guy had to share the same quarters as me. it takes the mind off fighting and puts it on avoiding being analy raped

haha u think gay men are just gonna want u like that? KeN VeRsUs RyU is right..gay men and rapists are different things, lol
just because ur straight do u like every girl u see?

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Old Post 01-08-2004 12:38 AM
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PsychoSnowman
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from what little information and studies there are, once a person is known to be gay, performance does not drop. I cannot source it for you. It was on an mtv news special about the reason why a boyfriend of someone on real world: new orleans had to have his face blurred, etc. Some military person said performance did not drop, as he did not like the policy.

What about their social life implications though? It is not just that they cannot be open in the military, they cannot be open anywhere. If someone finds out, and the military finds out somehow because of it, they are kicked out. It is not just the military or a temporary service for all people, for some people it is their life, and they cannot afford to take that chance. For others it is how they are paying for college, and etc. Living in complete secrecy does not sound good at all. Having to hide that from everyone, taxi drivers, and anyone at all...hmm the consequence is never good, whether it be beaten to death, or just taken out of hte military, it all just seems like a lose-lose situation. Sure, people do not want sexual situations in a military environment, but as KenVsRyu said, that does not make them a rapist. I would think these people would be aware of the situation and not force themselves on anyone or try to do anything that would inhibit performance by anyone.

I still find it terrible that even today a common military chant (whatever they are called, you know the "i don't nkow what i've been told" like anthems they sing as they run, etc.) is something along the lines of

"faggot faggot running down the street, shoot him shoot him 'til he retreats"

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Last edited by PsychoSnowman on 01-08-2004 at 04:05 AM

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Old Post 01-08-2004 04:03 AM
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Alchemist
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They're called cadences, I did not know they had one like that, that's terrible.

C4 does seem to have a point, if they are going to let homosexuals in the military with each other, why not have men and women together?

The military doesn't want any display of affection right? They donít want sexual activity taking place there at all either.

Well here's a possible reason for this policy regarding homosexuals: They've effectively eliminated the possibility of heterosexuals engaging in heterosexual activities by separating men and women, by having homosexuals hide their orientation they wonít have sexual activities and they wouldnít be able to engage in secret sexual activities as they donít know who the others are and they wonít come on to heterosexuals so they wouldn't come on to anyone then. That is my guess to the reason they have this policy.

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Old Post 01-08-2004 11:15 PM
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PsychoSnowman
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I think another reason why women and men are not intermixed in the military is because, not just due to sexual interaction, but because of how it would cause an unequal balance in it. Men would probably do more rash things in order to protect the females because they are not as physically strong. A big reason why men are with men is because of comradery, and equal strength, and being able to count on one another. I think that would be lost if women and men would be interchanged, but if gays were allowed in the military i do not see how this would change. it is not just sexual interaction, it is the brotherhood and keeping equally strong people within their own groups so as to stray from encouraging the formation of "heroes" and rash behavior. Heroes, i mean, what i said earlier about how men might make rash moves to protect the females, and vice versa.

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Old Post 01-09-2004 03:00 AM
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kryogenix
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quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
I think another reason why women and men are not intermixed in the military is because, not just due to sexual interaction, but because of how it would cause an unequal balance in it. Men would probably do more rash things in order to protect the females because they are not as physically strong. A big reason why men are with men is because of comradery, and equal strength, and being able to count on one another. I think that would be lost if women and men would be interchanged, but if gays were allowed in the military i do not see how this would change. it is not just sexual interaction, it is the brotherhood and keeping equally strong people within their own groups so as to stray from encouraging the formation of "heroes" and rash behavior. Heroes, i mean, what i said earlier about how men might make rash moves to protect the females, and vice versa.




but couldn't it be possible there be a lack of trust between a straight guy and a gay guy because of the fact the guy is gay? could it be possible that this would cause division between the gay guys and straight guys?

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Old Post 01-09-2004 08:21 PM
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PsychoSnowman
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quote:
Originally posted by kryogenix
but couldn't it be possible there be a lack of trust between a straight guy and a gay guy because of the fact the guy is gay? could it be possible that this would cause division between the gay guys and straight guys?


sure, possibly. The bit i cited earlier said that performance did not drop when people were known to be gay though, and i think that lends itself towards showing that trust would not be such an issue.

If you were in the heat of battle, trying to take out your enemy, in enemy fire...would you be thinking about whether or not someone is attracted to you really? When it comes down to it, divisions are made between females and males because of their ability to count on each other. A difference in sexual preference i do not think would hinder that, and from that real world special with the officer saying it did not hinder performance...it seems to not in real life beyond just my mere speculation.

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"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

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Old Post 01-09-2004 11:57 PM
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huby40
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i remember about hearing instances of this in much earlier times. of course, it doesnt relate very well to this discussion, since these times are dead. But still, interesting. It shows a historical view of affection in battle...

http://monolith.dnsalias.org/~marsa...le/leuctra.html

quote:
Thebes also started to rebuild its army after the Spartan government had been liquidated, and the Spartan garrisson had been defeated. Remarkable was that the Theban army only consisted of citizens at the first stage of the Theban hegemony, while the rest of the ancient world became more and more dependant of mercenaries. This was also the time that the famous elite corps of Thebes was founded by Gorgidas: the devoted brothers in arms. Traditionally this corps consisted of 150 homosexual male couples. You should realise that there was nothing perverse about homosexuality in the Greek world, unlike as in many other ancient civilizations. Homer had already mentioned in the Illiad that such a unit could be very useful, and Plato mentions it also as the men would try to compete with their partners in bravery, but they would also be determined to protect their partners.



actually... this whole thread should be checked out, many references.

http://www.strategypage.com/message...ges/89-4857.asp

Last edited by huby40 on 01-16-2004 at 03:51 AM

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Old Post 01-16-2004 03:46 AM
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