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micron
all i need is a miracle

Registered: Mar 2002
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cloning.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030227/dcth045_1.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2003Feb27.html

hmm, im surprised no one caught up on this. what do you think? discuss away..

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03-06-2003 12:47 AM

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Chinesegrl
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yea i remember this. we talked about how good the chances of the president and the congress would make a law aganist it. even the UK is thinking about it too.

Clonaid doesn't even have evidence of cloning. they're jus saying they made the "first" clones. they jus said a dutch lesiban had a clone of herself born, but the news have different dates of each one. they're saying one is supposed to be born this sunday. its kinda confusing. >.<

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03-06-2003 12:56 AM

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aznkid1008
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quote:
Originally posted by Chinesegrl

Clonaid doesn't even have evidence of cloning. they're jus saying they made the "first" clones. they jus said a dutch lesiban had a clone of herself born, but the news have different dates of each one. they're saying one is supposed to be born this sunday. its kinda confusing. >.<

thats all a load of bull. it took 40 somethin tries 2 get a clone of a damn sheep and we dont even kno if its a clone because the original died before the "copy" was born. then 2 try a more complex animal such as a lion would take many many trials, then tryin 2 leap to tryin humans will take decades im guessin. until they show us proof all i hav 2 say is they r a load of complete crap.

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03-07-2003 12:09 AM

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.aS.|5p!7f!|23
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i dont believe it cause god told me not to. (not serious)

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03-07-2003 12:12 AM

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Chinesegrl
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well i think cloning of the humans is wrong because we're already over populated enough

i think therapudic, i dunno if thats you spell it but oh wells, is better than human cloning because that way people who are waiting for a doner for an organ can quickly get one that was cloned and was the same blood type and everythin for them

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03-07-2003 12:15 AM

PsychoSnowman
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quote:
Originally posted by Chinesegrl
well i think cloning of the humans is wrong because we're already over populated enough

sorry, but that is so selfish. Yes, it's bad on a morality level because of selflihs desires like us being over populated...sweet. If we're going to play the morality card, i think it's wrong to be selfish.

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03-07-2003 03:16 AM

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Chinesegrl
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quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
sorry, but that is so selfish. Yes, it's bad on a morality level because of selflihs desires like us being over populated...sweet. If we're going to play the morality card, i think it's wrong to be selfish.

-__-;; well when people are cloned that doesnt mean their personality is the same so why clone them if they're not going to remember you? once we get cloned other people want to be cloned and it jus becomes a perferct world then. its going to be boring that way.

how am i selfish? our class had a talk about this and everything. all of us think that cloning people are wrong and only cloning organs for people is ok. if you want a child and you cant have it why clone yourself? there are other ways of having a baby since you're not able to have one yourself.

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03-07-2003 03:27 AM

PsychoSnowman
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quote:
Originally posted by Chinesegrl
-__-;; well when people are cloned that doesnt mean their personality is the same so why clone them if they're not going to remember you? once we get cloned other people want to be cloned and it jus becomes a perferct world then. its going to be boring that way.

this is really all irrelevent to what i said, but anyway...why not? Just because clones dont' fit what you envision them to be, all of a sudden they become a false dream and are not worth anything? Ok, they don't have the same personality, who said they had to or intended to? It's just another way of reproducing, it's not as if baby's being born regularly have any sort of obligatory measure in order to be born, i don't see why you attach it to clones. Doesn't matter if they have the same personality or anything.

I have no idea what you mean by a perfect world, cloning is as you said not cloning personalities....and i have no idea how it'd be a perfect world. It could be boring sure, that's another selfish reason not to allow clones...because it'd be "boring that way." omg....-_-. Sorry, i'm not in that great of a mood so if i'm harsh i apologize, though i know that's not an excuse, but....yeah. How can we ever get a perfect world? you know that's impossible,a nd since perfect is subjective, it's literally impossible.

quote:

how am i selfish? our class had a talk about this and everything. all of us think that cloning people are wrong and only cloning organs for people is ok. if you want a child and you cant have it why clone yourself? there are other ways of having a baby since you're not able to have one yourself.

I've told you how you were selfish, you are selfish because you don't want clones for reasons of:

1) overpopulation
2) they don't fill the purpose you make them out to have (clone personalities)
3) it'd be "boring that way"
4) to deviate from a perfect world in your opinion
5) there are "other ways of having a baby", that you like better

All that is just saying "you can't live because i don't want you to." "you can't live because we all ready have too many people on earth, you can't live because you aren't a cloned personality adn then you won't remember the clonee, you can't live becuase we'd approach a perfect world and i don't want that, you can't live because it'd just be boring" That's what you are saying. I really can't see how it's not selfish. Never once in that post did it come across that you reflected upon the question "why not?" It really answers everything.

I don't htin it's wrong, and i think your whole class saying its wrong doesn't add anything to your point or gain you any ground. Most people think it's wrong, and what am i supposed to say to that? I can't say antying cause i don't think morality exists and it's just dumb to argue something like that that carries so much weight with just a single word. Sure, i can say "i think it's wrong" back, but it won't mean anything cause i won't believe it. But, i'll say it anyway cause i'm sick of being at a disadvantage, i think it's wrong of you to choose who lives and who doesn't (i.e. bieng selfish to a greater extent). Shame on you for weighing human lives.

Last edited by PsychoSnowman on 03-07-2003 at 03:46 AM

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03-07-2003 03:43 AM

heyitsdean
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Alright, i gotta get in on this post. I am totally in agreeance with Psycosnowman. Your reasons for not wanting cloning are competely selfish. His reasoning is completly valid. And again, as he said just because your whole class decided it was wrong, doens't make it so. I believe that cloning has some great advantages and some disadvantages. I can almost maybe see what you're trying to say about how it would become a "perfect world" but you need to explain. What i get from it is that someone would believe that their race/family/people are better than others and the fastest way to make more of them would be to clone themselves, that is a bad thing. But not a reason to ban cloning. Those people shouldn't hinder what would be a great advance in the scientific field. They act on those feelings no matter what. But other than that, cloning could be more than just making people, perhaps it would lead to somethign truely beneficial without any bad side effects. I donno where this is going, but i'm gonna stop now

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03-07-2003 03:53 AM

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Leni
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I'm not for or against cloning (coz I don't know enough about it to pick a side) but one thing that I really like about cloning is the idea of cloning organs. We could save a shit load of lives if we clone organs.

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03-07-2003 09:47 PM

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Chinesegrl
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ok then.. all i am saying is how i feel.. you dont have to agree with mine i'm jus letting you guys know how i feel.

yes i'm afraid of the change people are being created. i would feel strange if one of my friends turned out to be a clone you know? i wouldnt want to find out most of my friends were cloned. what if the clones come out with birth affects or die after a couple of years?

you dont know what exactly its going to do yet since they haven't cloned humans yet. its like you if you rob a bank you dont know how its going to end like if you get caught or anything.

i jus dont to see more children on the streets or in adoption because their parents didnt want them. if some one couldnt have a baby why dont they jus adopt one and help some one's life? thats not selfish at all.

Last edited by Chinesegrl on 03-08-2003 at 11:40 PM

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03-08-2003 01:20 AM

merc
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quote:
Originally posted by Chinesegrl
i dont really care if you think im selfish or not because some of you dont know what im really like and its jus my opinion...

Nobody can read your mind. So yea, we will never know what you are "really like". But we do infer things from the things you write. These are forums where we draw a self-portrait of ourselves for others with our ideas. You draw a blurry or misleading picture and it will be interpreted in many ways [some that you may not like, or think does not portray what you're "really like"]. In the eyes of others, our words build who we are on these forums.

So please don't use that arguement. -

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03-08-2003 03:15 PM

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ShadowolfXVII
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Humans have to understand that we are not the god of the world, so we should stop trying to be and stop doing things we were not meant to do. Besides, we are wasting time and money on things we should not. We should be using our effort where we need it.

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03-08-2003 05:40 PM

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Chinesegrl
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quote:
Originally posted by merc
Nobody can read your mind. So yea, we will never know what you are "really like". But we do infer things from the things you write. These are forums where we draw a self-portrait of ourselves for others with our ideas. You draw a blurry or misleading picture and it will be interpreted in many ways [some that you may not like, or think does not portray what you're "really like"]. In the eyes of others, our words build who we are on these forums.

So please don't use that arguement. -

sorry.. i wasnt thinking that time... -__-;;

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03-08-2003 06:15 PM

PsychoSnowman
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quote:
Originally posted by Chinesegrl
sorry.. i wasnt thinking that time... -__-;;

You misunderstood everything i said, and are dwelling over the word selfish. It's only as big of an insult as you make it out to be, and i was offended by your weighing of human lives so i said you were selfish and i still think you are being so...even moreso now with your continual denying of it...ugh. You think you are taking the moral high ground it seems like, and you aren't....refer to my other post about the implications of what you said that you seem to completely ignoring.

thank you for telling me i don't have to agree with what you think, that is very courteous....contrary to your views on cloning.

I don' t think i'd feel weird if i found out one of my firends was a clone, i wouldn't care, and neither should you. I mean, even if i did feel uncomfortable, you don't see me going around saying they shouldn't be allowed to live for something that "I" feel. Look how many times you used some form of the word "I" in that paragraph....a lot. Cause that's your only reason, it's all about you. I don't see hwo you can say you aren't being selfish. And, as to the other argument you edited out, you misinterpreted everything yet again...i never said you were selfish, the point was that your views on cloning were selfish. Get it? Not you, though you might be cuase i don't know you, but your views are selfish.

I don't know what exactly is going to happen with cloning? ok... sure. I know i don't. Even if they were to die, i'm not the one who's not giving them a chance to live.

quote:

i jus dont to see more children on the streets or in adoption because their parents didnt want them. if some one couldnt have a baby why dont they jus adopt one and help some one's life? thats not selfish at all.

Yes it is, it's always going to be selfish when you decide who lives or dies based on what YOU want. YOU don't want to see more children on the streets and YOU don't want more of them in adoption because their parents didn't want them, YOU want everyone to adopt instead of create. It's all you, i don't know how you can deny this being selfish at all. You just keep restating yourself (no, that's not because that's all you have to say, i've heard that before, yes).

Again, why not? why don't they just clone if they want a baby? i mean, not everyone wants to have raise a baby that is not their own (geneticlaly related, or whatever). The moment you restrict options like this for the reasons that you want, is the moment you become selfish. Sure, it looks all ethical and not selfish, but it's not. You are deciding who lives and who doesn't. Shame on you, don't just blindly follow the guise of morality, it's not always "right" when we start weighing advantages and disadvantages.

Last edited by PsychoSnowman on 03-10-2003 at 02:48 AM

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03-09-2003 10:13 PM

PsychoSnowman
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowolfXVII
Humans have to understand that we are not the god of the world, so we should stop trying to be and stop doing things we were not meant to do. Besides, we are wasting time and money on things we should not. We should be using our effort where we need it.

actually,...we are.

In all seriousness, any name calling you do or inferring of humanity's collective goal is all just you, it's not society. You seem to think humanity is trying ot attain the level of a divinity...when you made all that up. Sure, it can come off to that as someone who wants to believe that like yourself, but you know that humanity isn't trying to become god, it might look that way effectually to you, but there is no goal... We aren't "trying to be" and there really isn't anyting "we were not meant to do."

How do you know we are wasting money? This is all foresight, i'd like to see you eat your words when it becomes hindsight in some years in the future. You nkow this is all your biased speculation. It's foolish to say we are wasting time and money on something you don't know the full effects of. We could be, but we could not be. And then.....where is it that we "need it"? I have no idea, please tell me.

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03-09-2003 10:29 PM

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