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quote:
Originally posted by yOOnsk
hey, im sorry if i got off-topic with my reply.. If what you're looking for is solid, tangible, physical proof of God's existence then in that case I have nothing to offer but my faith. Evolutionists are all materialists. They think that all things in the universe can be explained by the interactions of matter and the elements. They never even stop to think about what they cannot see or observe in a laboratory.
Consider these things:
- During all recorded human history, there has never been a substantiated case of a living thing being produced from anything other than another living thing.
- As yet, Evolutionism has not produced a scientifically credible explanation for the origin of such immense complexities as DNA, the human brain, and many other complex elements of the cosmos.
- It is highly premature for materialists to claim that all living things evolved into existence, when science has yet to discover how even one protein molecule could actually have come into existence by natural processes.
- There is no scientific proof that life did (or ever could) evolve into existence from non-living matter. Further, there is substantial evidence that spontaneous generation is impossible. Only DNA is known to produce DNA. No chemical interaction of molecules has even come close to producing this ultra-complex code which is so essential to all known life.
( read here for more )
Scientists say that chances of life originating by natural processes are 1 in 10^40,000. Mathematicians generally agree that statistically, any odds beyond 1 in 10^50 have a zero probability of ever happening. Wanna know what my proof is for creation? Life. Look in the mirror and look at how complex your eye is. Look at a strand of DNA, and you can see how amazingly everything is so perfectly intertwined and arranged in something so small. For every Creation there is a Creator.
To even consider that your source is not biased is foolish at best.
Where do I start? At the beginning I suppose.
So what you're talking about (in the beginning of your post) is the inability to create something from nothing (biologically speaking.) Where did the first organism come from? Well my answer to this is the semantics behind the word "living." In current day, living is associated with organic materials. And it is true, organic materials cannot be created without more organic materials. However, it has been proven that the first organisms, which were so basic it boggles our mind, were nitrogen based. How? Why? And how did it change? The first how is something scientists of caliber far greater than I can even imagine are working on right now. Why? Being a simple organism, they probably lacked a greater purpose, but according to chaos theorists (chaoticians if anyone's seen Jurassic Park), "life cannot be stopped." How did it change? Who says it has changed so far? Relative to the world we are complex. We are the most complex cellular beings imaginable to date. Does our future really hold us like this? Or as superior beings? Where does that come from? Magic? No, evolution. Relative to the future we are minor creatures, just like apes are to us now. "Substantial evidence that spontaneous generation is impossible"? Show me. If you can find something from a website that doesn't start have "christian" or "bible" in it, let me know. Make it recent if you can because new studies have been happening in recent years.
"As yet, Evolutionism has not produced a scientifically credible explanation for the origin of such immense complexities as DNA, the human brain, and many other complex elements of the cosmos."
The cosmos? Your attempt to give God a broad sweeping power over the entire universe is laughable. Once again, you retread the same point with different words. Evolution does not state that *poof* magically one day we all had 46 genes and super complex brains (although some of us still don't). It happened over time. The last catastrophic event to happen to the world was the Ice Age, 18,000 years ago. Now, consider that cellularly, as it is an extremely long time. I'm not talking about matter creation anymore (I've had enough of that although it seems it is your only point) Over 18,000 years, how many cells do you think came and went? Lived and died? In every, single cell that ever existed there was a chance (extremely small at best) for an evolutionary mutation! If we take all the cells that existed for the past 18,000 years (who knows, let's make up a number like you did like 1x10^40,000) then at least once (since successes = (number of trials) * (probability of success)). Now let's say your number is extremely overshot by your biased source while mine is pretty reasonable because 18,000 years is a damn long time and hey, in every human being there's billions of cells. Multiply that by 6 billion. Oh yeah, what about animals? Plants? Bacteria? Little thingies in the ocean? Yeah, perhaps you get my point. Mutation is possible (even with minute probabilities) and mutation (and adaptation, a different matter), being the facilitators(s) of evolution (theoretically of course *scoff*) makes it very possible.
If you would like information on human evolution and the stupidities of creationists before you, click here
Edit: Also, some people consider probabilities less than 1 x 10^50 impossible because they don't consider sample sizes that are big enough. Cellular construction in the past 18,000 years (more actually because the ice expansion didn't go everywhere) is a sample big enough to satisfy this probability. I also think you meant statisticians, because mathematicians aren't really in that field.
"It is highly premature for materialists to claim that all living things evolved into existence, when science has yet to discover how even one protein molecule could actually have come into existence by natural processes."
Oh my goodness! It's the same damn thing AGAIN?! WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT? You seriously must be joking though, there's only so many times you can say the same thing in a different way. Scientists who are looking to discover how the first cell was created (since honestly we don't know yet) are looking at nitrogen based organisms. Hey, what aspect of organic matter have nitrogen? Could it be proteins? Oh yes. It definitely could. But hey, that's not proof enough for someone who looks in the mirror and finds their answer.
"There is no scientific proof that life did (or ever could) evolve into existence from non-living matter. Further, there is substantial evidence that spontaneous generation is impossible. Only DNA is known to produce DNA. No chemical interaction of molecules has even come close to producing this ultra-complex code which is so essential to all known life. "
Once again it's the same damn thing. But enough of that. There's no chemical reaction that produces DNA in that sense. That is true. But then again, no one said there was. Where on earth did they think people were saying that from? Such a reaction is impossible. Our DNA came from a mutation from something with more basic DNA. Why? Because we needed to do it. That is evolution. If we didn't evolve our super amazing DNA (which is amazing but hey, in the larger sense still kinda sucks) we would have died out. That is nature vs. life. If life doesn't change, life dies. Hence chaoticians saying "Life will go on". What do some frogs in West Africa do in a same sex environment? Grow the other gender's gonads to facilitate LIFE. Evolution at its finest.
Anyway, I'm sorry about the length, tone and content of this post if it offends you in any way. I'm not in the mood to be tactful (though I hardly even made an effort). Some TZers will know why, others won't. I am sorry for the way this post is. But consider it this way. Take off your shoes (if worn). Take off your socks (once again if worn). And look at your pinky toe. Where is it going? Why is it so disproportionately small to the rest of your toes? Answer: evolution. If you think about it for one second you will understand. It goes to be the same for the appendix. I believe this is my longest post ever but I am still put to shame by PsychoSnowman, who if he's friendly may come in here and help me out because I am unable to verbalize my ideas at the moment.
Edit: Forgot a word/spelling/addendums.
2nd edit: If you don't believe me, please feel free to dissent with all of your heart and I will be pained to look up an amazing amount of information for you. But consider this, I am not bashing your views (although it may sound like it) I respect your opinion but I wish that your opinion be formed from sound science. Although, if you don't believe in science, then maybe I am bashing you. I have an extremely high tolerance for religious things but if you don't believe in science I am at a loss.
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Last edited by requiem on 02-28-2003 at 01:26 AM
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02-27-2003 05:05 AM
