Bored? Come in and play at Jusunlee.com Arcade! Go chat in Jusunlee.com Chatroom (requires AIM) Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Registration is free! Calendar Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Home
Jusunlee.com Forums > Intellectuals > Enlightenment > hagakure
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
tm11
down by law

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: MI
Posts: 1548
Status: Offline

hagakure

the hagakure (meaning "in the shadow of leaves) is basically a book containing the philosophy of a samurai. Idealistic, usually wise, and chock-full of samurai goodness, it has some interesting quotes, and provides an interesting outlook on some things, here are some quotes, after some background info:

Yamamoto Tsunetomo was a samurai in the early 1700s. Forbidden by law from committing tsuifuku (suicide of a retainer after his master's death), he retired to a monestary. Though he never fought in any battles, he nonetheless felt that the samurai of his time had become soft. A younger samurai that visited Yamamoto over the years wrote down his words in the Hagakure. It has been translated many times, including a translation by the famous Japanese author Mishima Yukio.
------------------------------------------------

"One should make his decisions within the space of seven breaths...With an intense, fresh and undelaying spirit, one will make his judgments within the space of seven breaths. It is a matter of being determined and having the spirit to break right through to the other side."

Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom nor technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.

There is something to be learned from a rainstorm. When meeting with a sudden shower, you try not to get wet and run quickly along the road. But doing such things as passing under the eaves of houses, you still get wet. When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed, though you still get the same soaking.

Singlemindedness is all-powerful.

A man who will criticize you openly carries no connivance.

A man exists for a generation, but his name lasts to the end of time.

Money is a thing that will be there when asked for. A good man is not so easily found.

Walk with a real man one hundred yards and he'll tell you at least seven lies.

It is a principle of the art of war that one should simply lay down his life and strike. If one's opponent also does the same, it is an even match. Defeating one's opponent is then a matter of faith and destiny.

Having only wisdom and talent is the lowest tier of usefulness
It is difficult for a fool's habits to change to selflessness
A samurai with no group and no horse is not a samurai at all

There is surely nothing other than the single purpose of the present moment. A man's whole life is a succession of moment after moment. If one fully understands the present moment, there will be nothing else to do, and nothing left to pursue.

In all dealings with people, it is essential to have a fresh approach. One should constantly give the impression that he is doing something exceptional. It is said that this is possible with but a little understanding.

Uesugi Kenshin (a famous daimyo, or feudal lord) said, "I never knew about winning from beginning to end, but only about not being behind in a situation."

The end is important in all things. (Yamamoto comes back to this point often, using several examples to show that if things end badly, all good that may have come before it will be erased. This reinforces his primary theme that one must stay focused on every present moment, and in this way will never be found negligent.)

__________________
word is bond

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-27-2002 09:51 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for tm11 Click here to Send tm11 a Private Message Find more posts by tm11 Add tm11 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
soul II soul
Junior Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: So.CaLi
Posts: 4
Status: Offline

these are all quotes from the book ... right? i like ... maybe i'll read it. ^_^

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-29-2002 08:43 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for soul II soul Click here to Send soul II soul a Private Message Visit soul II soul's homepage! Find more posts by soul II soul Add soul II soul to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
tm11
down by law

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: MI
Posts: 1548
Status: Offline

yeah these are excerpts from the text, I haven't been able to locate a copy of the book yet, but I haven't really looked at all haha, the only obscure east asian text I have right now is only mildly obscure and it's mao's little red book

__________________
word is bond

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-29-2002 04:18 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for tm11 Click here to Send tm11 a Private Message Find more posts by tm11 Add tm11 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
requiem
Book Mod/Batman Fan

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 338
Status: Offline

It's hard to read idealistic material because eventually you realize how that ideal failed to be implemented.

__________________
When the day is done
you are all that is left

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-30-2002 06:08 PM
Click Here to See the Profile for requiem Click here to Send requiem a Private Message Find more posts by requiem Add requiem to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
tm11
down by law

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: MI
Posts: 1548
Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by requiem
It's hard to read idealistic material because eventually you realize how that ideal failed to be implemented.


Why is that true? It's irrelevent if the ideal failed to be implemented or not, because the ideal is something to strive for. Some things can not be lived to, but for a Samurai, in this instance, adhering as best they could to this style of life is all they could do, and there was "honor" in that.
How does make the text difficult to read?

__________________
word is bond

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-03-2002 03:16 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for tm11 Click here to Send tm11 a Private Message Find more posts by tm11 Add tm11 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
requiem
Book Mod/Batman Fan

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 338
Status: Offline

quote:
Originally posted by tm11


Why is that true? It's irrelevent if the ideal failed to be implemented or not, because the ideal is something to strive for. Some things can not be lived to, but for a Samurai, in this instance, adhering as best they could to this style of life is all they could do, and there was "honor" in that.
How does make the text difficult to read?



I should've thrown a "...for me..." in there. Whoops.
Anyway, I find it difficult because even if I appreciate the ideal (which I do in this case) it depresses me a little to see how a good ideal failed.

On another note, does this relate to "ronin" at all? I only know the name from the movie, so if you could relate that it would be very useful. I may pick it up anyway from such a recommendation and well-written quotes.

__________________
When the day is done
you are all that is left

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-03-2002 03:29 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for requiem Click here to Send requiem a Private Message Find more posts by requiem Add requiem to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
tm11
down by law

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: MI
Posts: 1548
Status: Offline

ah ok, that helps , heh. That makes more sense now, I don't think that ideal failed in all cases though, so don't get too depressed now, haha.

This doesn't totally pertain to ronin, I would say. A ronin is a masterless samurai, and most of the ideas conveyed in hagakure pertained to retainers, but a lot could apply to a Samurai in general anyways, hope that helps.

__________________
word is bond

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 12-03-2002 03:35 AM
Click Here to See the Profile for tm11 Click here to Send tm11 a Private Message Find more posts by tm11 Add tm11 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:43 PM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
  Last Thread   Next Thread

Show Printable Version Email this Page Subscribe to this Thread

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON