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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 01-07-2003 10:13 PM:

Precognition

I was just remembering that movie Minority Report...and, you can't have precognition, it violates all the laws of causality! I thought it was funny when people were all mystified after the movie and were wondering if that could ever happen when it's utterly impossible...Oh well, fun to think about hehe. I just think it's funny how we have these "psychics" and fortune tellers and the like haha.

-edit- Reish, seriously don't bring up free will if you can avoid it, we all ready have a topic about that. We don't want repeat threads.

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Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by tm11 on 01-07-2003 10:34 PM:

Re: Precognition

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
-edit- Reish, seriously don't bring up free will if you can avoid it, we all ready have a topic about that. We don't want repeat threads.


werdd...

freedom, hahha

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word is bond

Posted by Spuzzter on 01-08-2003 05:01 AM:

Re: Precognition

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
-edit- Reish, seriously don't bring up free will if you can avoid it, we all ready have a topic about that. We don't want repeat threads.


Ah.. yes.. well, excellent. But about precognition, though... what about 'spider sense?' eh? eh? They said it might be precognition in the movie, spiderman.. mh..

Spinoza was right.

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 01-08-2003 08:26 PM:

he's right in the existence of causality, but i don't think that's such radical thinking...more like stating the obvious. Haha i really should NOT have said anything about it hmm....hehe

Anyway, they said it might be precognition, i'm sure it's not. Why would a spider possibly be exempt? Perhaps ESP, and rapid reflexes that just happen to be easily explained through a fictional creation called precognition. I mean seriously, we can make up anything, that doesn't mean it's true. Negative mass? hmmm, i don't see how that's ever possible. Haha, well i mean i don't know for sure so i'm just saying that it seems so absurd to me. I'm tangenting off, but for a final thought, all right! Let's find tachyons and then stabalize black holes? I mean, who couldn't think of that? It's dumb logic from what i know right now...but if it isn't someone just say so heh cuase i really don't know that much about it. Anyway, we just made it up i think, Special or General relativity doesn't have any hole that would dictate the existence of such a particle...and neither the laws of causality, no hole that needs to be filled.

Now that i look at that, that really isn't that great of an argument haha, i'm sorry. Make of it what you will.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by AzNmAgE on 01-09-2003 03:32 AM:

....

well i think that premonitions and "future sight" are real...i mean maybe not through science like Minority Report (great movie btw, kept me guessing till d end... ), but naturally. i mean there is only so much that science can prove....they can't prove that bigfoot exists (yet) or if ppl have telekinetic powers. Its just one of those things where you have to let nature take its course and let it plan our future, but thast just my 2 cents lol

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Posted by Spuzzter on 01-09-2003 03:49 AM:

David, when you mean negative mass, are you referring to antimatter? If so, then I'm fairly sure that exists. If an equal quantity of antimatter meets with an equal quantity, there is a reaction. Right?

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"Wave of mutilation."
-The Pixies

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 01-09-2003 06:26 AM:

oh no, antimatter exists of course. There have been validating experiments conducted involved in the creation of it and even the harnessing and interaction of it with actual matter.

When i say negative mass i was referring to a theoretical particle called a Tachyon that has been proposed by someone as to exist somewhere in a different universe maybe or maybe even ours. It has negative mass and therefore it is able to travel at a speed faster than light (violating einstein's relativity thoeries as i'm sure you realize), so the idea that was formulated involving it's practicality was that they could harness a tachyon and "stabalize" a black hole by means of balancing out the mass, and then by doing that we would be able to somehow travel between universes or whatever.

I thought it was funny the first time i heard about it, but i really don't know a whole lot about it, and i imagine no one else does because it's just a theoretical particle. I wonder if there is any basis to it. But, i really shouldn't be bashing it with such limited knowledge of it and physics.

Anyway, back to precognition...we can explain anything anyway we want but that doesn't mean it's true. Spider's might have precognition, but it's unlikely...why would spiders of all things be exempt to the laws of causality?

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 01-09-2003 06:27 AM:

Re: ....

quote:
Originally posted by AzNmAgE
Its just one of those things where you have to let nature take its course and let it plan our future, but thast just my 2 cents lol


if we let nature take its place, then it wouldn't exist.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by MellowYellow on 01-09-2003 06:41 AM:

it's a load of bull ... people just made that crap up to feel like someone out there (not God or A god) can predict their own futures.... so they can either A. prevent it.... or B ride it out...

what's that tv show on USA called? the Dead Zone? i think it was a novel... yea... he can "see into the future" right? yea that dude has some problems with people in a couple of episodes i saw.

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Posted by TyGer STyLe on 01-10-2003 04:39 AM:

can someone explain to me the law of casualty?

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 01-11-2003 04:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by TyGer STyLe
can someone explain to me the law of casualty?


basically it's what it sounds like. For every cause there is an effect, hence causality. This is a big argument in the free will debate, there's a philosopher named Spinoza who argues that everythign humans do is dictated through causes that are in our environment. We have no free will. Others will say either that we create the cause, we cause an effect even if its still an effectual action, or something else, you can imagine the arguments. Basically it's just saying that effects happen because of inherent causes, i.e. environment, other people, and etc.

And, relating to this thread, i'm basically saying that by predicting an effect is to eliminate the existence of the cause. This precognition becomes the ultimate cause and humans can't really create a cause, becuase then it wouldn't be a cause, it'd be an effect. And precognition can't predict a cause either, becuase then it'd be an effect instead, and therefore destroys causality...i guess...hehe, spinoza says we have no free will and therefore by accepting this idea that we can create causes...we have pretty much absolute free will in his eyes. It contradicts his writings, and furthermore this isn't an advocacy of spinoza so there's no need to quote this and respond as if did (hoho). In other words, what in nature caused us to have precognition? nothing, it's on another level...hmmm, i'll get back here later if you don't understand the implications. ahhh I need to go to sleep, night.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by requiem on 01-14-2003 11:17 PM:

A tachyon is a particle of infinite mass, not negative. The formula for the new mass is m/sqrt(1-(v^2/c^2))
Square roots cannot be negative (sure imaginary is not any better, that is if v exceeds c) but a mass will never be negative. The mass is considered "imaginary" related to the negative square root that ends up on the bottom.

Of course, if abstract physics is your cup of tea you could always read this It's certainly not mine.

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 01-14-2003 11:36 PM:

i don't know that much about this, but

a tachyon wouldn't be able to travel faster than the speed of light if its mass was infinite. I believe it's a particle of either negative, or imaginary we could call it. If it could travel faster than light, then it'd have to be less than nothing, which is negative. All the sites i've read have something about it being negative...maybe i don't understand something (which is probably the case)....

Hmm, what does the m in the equation equal? if the new mass equals that, then:

New Mass = m / (sqrt (1-v^2/c^2))...what is the m? The old mass?

Granted, a mass will never be negative. But that is in our universe, a tachyon is theoretical and i've read articles where people have admitted the fallacy of their existence. Since i don't really know antyhign about this, it's getting messy...but, there's negative voltage, right? It's a real life application to imaginary numbers, or something. Anyway i heard the mention of negative voltage at a physics colloquiam at a college. Anyway, sorry if it doesn't make any sense.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by requiem on 01-15-2003 12:40 AM:

I believe the entire purpose of theoretical physics is to not make sense.
Anyway, m is the old mass. The denominator of that fraction will always be 1 or less, so at any speed the mass of any object increases, and as the mass approaches the speed of light the mass of that object approaches a huge number, and eventually if you apply a limit to v (lim v -> c) it will be infinite. This, in itself, is a reason why something bigger than a quantum particle will have trouble traveling anywhere near c. As it approaches c, the mass gets infinitely larger, requiring an even larger force to accelerate it (F = ma) even the slightest bit. All these are reasons approaching and surpassing c is impossible. I'm no physics major, I'm a math-major-in-training, and that's why that equation is made so that if v = c, you divide by zero, which is impossible. Another of the many many many many reasons travelling at the speed of light is ipossible.

Maybe I do kinda get it, but it's not real so until proven otherwise why even bothering attempting to understand. I only know this relativity equation so well because I'm doing a project on it for some stupid class in school. It's on relativity because the idiot teacher will not be able to comprehend such ideas.

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When the day is done
you are all that is left

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 01-16-2003 01:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by requiem
It's on relativity because the idiot teacher will not be able to comprehend such ideas.


haha i love doing that. Going over the teacher's head = perfect paper! yeah! haha

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by Alchemist on 01-16-2003 02:41 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
haha i love doing that. Going over the teacher's head = perfect paper! yeah! haha


Of course, how else can you get a 100% just by drawing a bunch of scribbles on a piece of paper?
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