Jusunlee.com Forums - Rally Cars and others

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Posted by sangxjin on 05-15-2002 04:47 PM:

Rally Cars and others

In rally cars and other LeMans cars why does the exhaust give off a tin can rattling noise followed by a form of a fireball during gear changes? If it like the excess exhaust burning up? I was just wondering..

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Posted by Prototype on 05-15-2002 06:47 PM:

do they have an exhaust at all? I'll look into it.

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Posted by gaeko on 05-15-2002 08:41 PM:

its backfire....and I really don't kno why rally cares back fire like ALL the time they let go of the accelerator.

Posted by ryosuke on 05-17-2002 01:44 PM:

Well if the car is turbo isn't it due to a system that misfires? To get the advantage of both the entrance and exit of a corner?

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Posted by sangxjin on 05-18-2002 01:11 AM:

o backfire..i knew it was something like that, cause i heard that word alot somewhere..yea and i do think most rally cars do have a turbo so i think wat ryosuke said was rite.

LeMans cars do it too.

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Posted by Prototype on 05-18-2002 02:06 AM:

I'm still not sure what you're talking about.

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Posted by gaeko on 05-19-2002 07:03 PM:

ryosuke IS right, at least according to Initia D, heh. Juss watched the episode wit the LanEvo III and its backfiring system. I thought it was funny how Takumi that that popping sound was hella annoying.

Posted by ryosuke on 05-21-2002 08:09 AM:

Gaeko, not everythingin Initial D is real.

But the misifiring system is kind of like, .... aww.... ok just think of it this way, the spark plugs,combustion blah blah blah, all fire in a certain way right? They fire differently in a Turbo or NA car, now imagine at low to midrange rpm's they fire in a certain way to get the reaction of a NA, but at also mid range to high rpm's they follow the combustion pattern of a Turbo to get the turbo's characteristics.

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Posted by indecisive on 05-26-2002 07:35 AM:

I love Initial D....neways ehhe

Rally and Lemans?? those are two totally different classes of racing hehe. anyways..I thot only turbos have misfireing systems. aren't most lemans GT class cars N/A tuned?

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Posted by JohnnyLemonhead on 05-27-2002 07:52 AM:

GT Cars, Motorcycles and Hi-Power Muscle Cars shoot flames after shifts because they let of the gas for a few moments to unload the tranny to shift, which puts some extra unburned fumes in the exhaust (all of these vehicles are running REALLY rich mixtures), which then combusts when the throttle is reapplied, because the ignition timing is so advanced, that spark is finding it's way into the manifolds.

Of course, you can also make an exhaust shoot a LOT of flames for show purposes by rigging a spark plug on the ignition as an extra cylinder, right on the tailpipe.

Posted by indecisive on 05-27-2002 11:41 PM:

oh....I see I see. kool shit. thanks for explaining dat. I need to get more car tech info into my head heh. maybe you can explain this to me.

how exactly does the turbo increase horse power? I know it does something to the exhaust and whatever but I dont' know what. and wif a supercharger what does that do? and finally, if you increase horsepower by N/A and or Turbo do you have to change you gearing and transmission and stuff too? or will it be fine if you leave stock gearing?

Posted by sangxjin on 05-28-2002 12:17 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by indecisive
oh....I see I see. kool shit. thanks for explaining dat. I need to get more car tech info into my head heh. maybe you can explain this to me.

how exactly does the turbo increase horse power? I know it does something to the exhaust and whatever but I dont' know what. and wif a supercharger what does that do? and finally, if you increase horsepower by N/A and or Turbo do you have to change you gearing and transmission and stuff too? or will it be fine if you leave stock gearing?

Turbocharger:

Turbochargers are a type of forced induction system. They compress the air flowing into the engine. The advantage of compressing the air is that it lets the engine squeeze more air into a cylinder, and more air means that more fuel can be added. Therefore, you get more power from each explosion in each cylinder. A turbocharged engine produces more power overall than the same engine without the charging. This can significantly improve the power-to-weight ratio for the engine.
In order to achieve this boost, the turbocharger uses the exhaust flow from the engine to spin a turbine, which in turn spins an air pump. The turbine in the turbocharger spins at speeds of up to 150,000 rotations per minute (rpm) -- that's about 30 times faster than most car engines can go. And since it is hooked up to the exhaust, the temperatures in the turbine are also very high.

Supercharger:

Basically the same idea as the turbocharger, the key difference is the power supply. Something has to supply the power to run the air compressor. In a supercharger, there is a belt that connects directly to the engine. The exhaust stream powers the turbocharger.

Comparision:

Both turbochargers and superchargers are called forced induction systems. They compress the air flowing into the engine. The advantage of compressing the air is that it lets the engine stuff more air into a cylinder. More air means that more fuel can be stuffed in, too, so you get more power from each explosion in each cylinder. A turbo/supercharged engine produces more power overall than the same engine without the charging.

The typical boost provided by either a turbocharger or a supercharger is 6 to 8 pounds per square inch (psi). Since normal atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi at sea level, you can see that you are getting about 50-percent more air into the engine. Therefore, you would expect to get 50-percent more power. It's not perfectly efficient, though, so you might get a 30-percent to 40-percent improvement instead.

There are tradeoffs in both systems. In theory, a turbocharger is more efficient because it is using the "wasted" energy in the exhaust stream for its power source. On the other hand, a turbocharger causes some amount of back pressure in the exhaust system and tends to provide less boost until the engine is running at higher RPMs. Superchargers are easier to install but tend to be more expensive.

Gearing and Transmission:

Not so sure about this one..I believe yes to both questions in some ways. Gears should be optimized to run the car smoothly so you dont stay at a certain gear for too long or your car mite lag. If the turbo added not that much power gears might not matter that much. If its a large increase you might have to change gear ratios and the gears. Same for transmission, your transmission should be able to hold a certain amount of HP. If your HP exceeds then you might have the risk of losing your tranny.

Im not so sure about the last one.. I think the older people with cars should have a better answer. I mite be wrong.

:huh:

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Posted by sangxjin on 05-30-2002 03:06 AM:

i hope that helps..

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Posted by indecisive on 05-31-2002 12:00 AM:

that helped a lot thanks.

is dat why people say dat you should build up your low end power when U get turbo?

Posted by hanul1004 on 05-31-2002 01:14 AM:

yea i think when ur running a very high or high boost you should reinforce your bottom.

Posted by sangxjin on 05-31-2002 01:59 AM:

That was me on my sisters id up on the last post.

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Posted by indecisive on 05-31-2002 03:07 AM:

haha oh aights.

how do you build up your low end? Intake? Intercooler? Air Filter? lol.

Posted by sangxjin on 05-31-2002 03:28 AM:

i believe by reinforcing the bottom with rods. The stuff u mention are the basics you need for having a turbo if u dont want detonation. Its like having a computer without a heatsink if u dont have a intercooler and have a turbo..Think of the intake and the filter as a case fan.

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Posted by indecisive on 05-31-2002 04:45 AM:

rods?? U mean piston rods?? how does that build up low end...while we're on that subject tho...when U bore out your pistons does it make your chambers larger so there's more room for fuel and such? if not what does boring out your pistons do? haha I'm just full of questions. sorry heh.

Posted by sangxjin on 05-31-2002 02:02 PM:

haha..
its alrite if ur full of questions thats why this car forum was intended for.
Anyway for the last question im not that sure..i think it mite be answered by Prototype or someone who knows alot about pistons. Yea and connecting rods of some sort, reinforce the bottom end. (i think?) im not sure how though ill look into that..and ur right about the pistons part..i think boring them widens them and increases the fuel and air mixture.

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