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Posted by heyitsdean on 11-01-2002 12:25 AM:

Reality is Perception

...what do you guys think? I have just stumbled onto this revelation and i am shocked...shocked out of my mind.

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Posted by TyGer STyLe on 11-01-2002 01:08 AM:

haha... isn't that what the "matrix" is all about??? hahaa

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Posted by Spuzzter on 11-01-2002 06:18 AM:

But what, I must ask, is perception? Which of our five senses should we trust the most? And, last but not least, is there perception without sensation (ESP)? The answers to these questions and more are not known to me. Dean! I implore you! Enlighten me!


Seriously though, I don't think that there's a sense that human beings, as we are today, trust as much as sight. Granted, it's fraught with problems, but how much of our world is focused on our ability to see (i.e. fashion)? Enlighten, illuminate.. all references to the ability to see.

Yes.

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 11-01-2002 06:29 AM:

Re: Reality is Perception

quote:
Originally posted by heyitsdean
I have just stumbled onto this revelation and i am shocked...shocked out of my mind.



not used to deep thought eh?

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"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by Spuzzter on 11-01-2002 12:07 PM:

Believe me, he's not

heh.

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 11-01-2002 08:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Spuzzter

Seriously though, I don't think that there's a sense that human beings, as we are today, trust as much as sight. Granted, it's fraught with problems, but how much of our world is focused on our ability to see (i.e. fashion)? Enlighten, illuminate.. all references to the ability to see.

Yes.


aww yeah, TOK time. I agree with that statement, yes. Our language is based upon sight just because it's what we use most often. Discourse alone proves our heavy dominance on it. Furthermore, anyone who says it's not the most important trait is mislead. hahaha jp, maybe not mislead but i disagree. Even if we had extroardinar hearing, there's only so far that we could go. I mean, we'd have no idea what the universe was like or even that it existed. We'd be wandering around in a void we traveled upon...perhaps by echolocation? (haha, i saw on ripley's believe it or not, someone who had honed echo location and could use it while walking, they showed him going up to a tree and he described it and such, pretty sweet). Anyway, no use, that doesn't work in space. Also, we'd be so much less productive...do you even think we'd make it to get anywhere near being the dominant species on earth? That'd be good for earth probably though.

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Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by merc on 11-02-2002 06:36 PM:

reality - The quality or state of being actual or true.

I'm going to take this at a different perspective, considering reality is truth (which is one of it's definitions.) If reality is perception...you're basically saying that what you percieve is what is.

Yes, perception might have influenced our current state, got us to where we are now (i.e. perhaps dominant species on earth.)

Even so, does it really mean that what we percieve is the full truth?
Of course not. Our perception is in no ways the full truth.
First off, lets consider that everyone has the equal and unbaised perspective, or perception on things.
Considering that what we percieve is influenced by our innate and learned knowledge, we can say that perception has a correlation w/ knowledge. And the truth of the matter is, although we are intellegent, learned beings, we still do not know all. If we do not know all, how can we possibly percieve the truth. Perhaps we may percieve bits and pieces of the truth, but we can never fully say that what we percieve is the full truth.



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"Truth transcends fact."

"Truth is not determined by how many people believe it."

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 11-02-2002 06:48 PM:

reality is defined as whatever is universally true i think

we can't perceive that cause we are hindered by our senses, hence we can't ever realize the greater truth out there. The only reality we have is one warped by our perception. We perceive a "truth", but it's not the truth, only a tenet held by the general population as humanity as being true. For us it's true, that could change from species to species, moreso it could be completely different than how things are. Then again, it could be exactly the same.

Bronowski time, tolerance people. Accept the fact that we'll never know, but don't let that stop you from trying to find out.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by requiem on 11-21-2002 09:19 PM:

Perception is ruled by the mind.
The mind can be manipulated to falsehoods.
As such, perception is not always reality.

Since all of our knowledge comes from our or other senses, it's never the full truth.

I agree with Bronowski in one respect: Accept the fact you'll never know.
But I don't think we'll ever be able to find out either. Humans have the greatest potential but also make the greatest errors.

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When the day is done
you are all that is left

Posted by ¨Õ¨Ø¨ß¨á¨Ú¨Ó on 11-27-2002 11:55 AM:

Well, let me give you an example how much reality is perception.

I forget where but some scientists did this test. They told their subjects that they would burn them with a hot coal. So, the scientists touched them with an ice cube. Out of fear and expectation of the "coal" coming' they were left with a burn mark.

Its wierd. The matrix, has a point. What if we are all connected to something that makes our mind dream the same dream, when we die, we wake up.

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blah.

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 11-27-2002 08:54 PM:

i don't think that was a real test, that scientist thing you are talking about. That is so absurd, the mind can't make burns on your body, if that was the case what'd stop us from willing our bones back together? We can't will physical effects on ourselves haha.

i believe heyitsdean means, by reality is perception, is that our reality is perception, not the that real reality is perception.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by Ariana on 11-29-2002 01:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by requiem
Perception is ruled by the mind.
The mind can be manipulated to falsehoods.
As such, perception is not always reality.

Since all of our knowledge comes from our or other senses, it's never the full truth.


Ohh.. this is so true. I wholly agree.

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"Never be bullied into silence. ever allow yourself to be ade a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life, define it yourself." Harvey Fierstein

Posted by ¨Õ¨Ø¨ß¨á¨Ú¨Ó on 12-02-2002 07:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
i don't think that was a real test, that scientist thing you are talking about. That is so absurd, the mind can't make burns on your body, if that was the case what'd stop us from willing our bones back together? We can't will physical effects on ourselves haha.

i believe heyitsdean means, by reality is perception, is that our reality is perception, not the that real reality is perception.


It is true, I believe it was on CNN otherwise it was ona local news show. Also, my teacher told me about it. Fear is what made the burn. Fear of the burn. It made their minds think, its gonna be hot. SO tehy anticipated something hot. Thus when it touched their skin, it burned htem.

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blah.

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 12-02-2002 07:50 AM:

still don't buy it, sorry.

I don't care if it's on CNN, i don't totally trust them and neither should anyone else...TOK people come on and join in! haha. Anyway, i'll still stand with my original point, it's an impossibility for the mind to create physical change of that extremity through sheer "fear" or any other emotion. Humans aren't that divine.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by ¨Õ¨Ø¨ß¨á¨Ú¨Ó on 12-02-2002 08:07 AM:

If I blind folded you and told you that i'm going to kick you in the head but I kick you in the balls. You anticipate the blow to the head but you get the wind knocked out of you since you weren't anticipating the kick to the balls. Right? Well If I told you I was going to put Nitrogen on your arm but put boiling water on it. It would feel cold. Its just what your body expects and anticipates. Have you ever put your hand in hot water but not been able to tell if its hot or cold?

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blah.

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 12-02-2002 08:25 AM:

it's not as if i didn't understand it. I simply don't think it's possible.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by ¨Õ¨Ø¨ß¨á¨Ú¨Ó on 12-02-2002 08:27 AM:

its all based on fear of being burned. if i were to tease you by putting it less than one cm away from your skin telling you it will be burned, you will get a burn mark out of fear of being burned.

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blah.

Posted by requiem on 12-03-2002 12:55 AM:

A burn is a physical reaction to an extreme temperature.
Using one of your examples, if you were to tell me you were going to kick me in the nuts but instead you kicked me in the head, would millions of my sperm die? Not likely.
Mind over matter works, but only to a point. After that accept the physics and chemistry of physiology and it makes sense.

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When the day is done
you are all that is left

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 12-03-2002 02:23 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ¨Õ¨Ø¨ß¨á¨Ú¨Ó
its all based on fear of being burned. if i were to tease you by putting it less than one cm away from your skin telling you it will be burned, you will get a burn mark out of fear of being burned.


hahaha again, it's not as if i don't understand this utterly simple concept. Stop with the examples, they aren't doing anything for your side.

-edit- yes, requiem has the right idea.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by ¨Õ¨Ø¨ß¨á¨Ú¨Ó on 12-03-2002 02:48 AM:

If you get it than it shouldn't seem that far-fetched. It did happen, it wasn't just on one person either. I'm trying to get the tape that my teacher had of it later on this week so I can re-watch it and give the full results of the test.

You all under-estimate the power of the human mind.

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blah.
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