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fatalism

do you believe things happen for a reason? like a kind of predestination?

Re: fatalism

quote:

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Originally posted by annabanana
do you believe things happen for a reason? like a kind of predestination?

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i think things happen for a reason. i don't believe too much in predestination, but i do think that some events are life-changing and will set up the rest of the events to come after. like, deciding to go into an audition and then getting a callback.

everytime i think of destiny i think of some entity. Thats what it makes out to be when people go about describing it. It's a set path for what people are bound to do within their lifetime. If you are in control of your own destiny then a destiny doesn't actually exist. I've heard of people saying that though your destiny may change there will be another destiny foreseeing that destiny's changes. However, the problem with that is that it leads to an infinite number of these destinies.

But the question, how could a destiny possibly exist? It's not a person or god, it's an entity that is as i see it "made up." So this entity is santa claus, foreseeing everything you do. This lends itself to creationism in a way in that of the time of judgement.

It's like that math thread, of does it exist? it does and it doesn't, we endow it with a name by generalizing it all into one. The actual events that make up destiny are true but does that constitute the existence of an actual destiny? It's like time as far as my understanding of it is so far (i'm rather agnostic about it, it's probably true what they say though as i have not delved far enough into physics yet), so time is the 4th dimension when it could in fact just be a moniker we give to a generalization of the change of events. Is it actually a dimension or not? I dunno.Thats all i'll say in fear of no one reading this

I think that sometimes, actions act upon 'predestination'

at school this kid said he was predestined to not have his homework

Predestination cannot exist unless precognition exists.

and if precognition and clairvoyence exist, than free will does not.

__________________

fatalism is a redundant topic of discussion.

First of all, men have free will. If you need proof of this statement, then i suggest you read up on critiques of behaviorist experiments conducted by Watson or Skinner. The obvious conclusion is that no human can be permanently conditioned to do something. I like a quotation from the book Dune by Frank Herbert which goes along like this "The difference between a man and an animal is that if an animal is trapped it will chew off its leg in order to escape. A man, however, will endure the pain of the trap in order to kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind."

Now that we've established that humans have free will, i'll go on to say that higher orders of nature do not control us (ie gods). If any of you are bored enough to read a few religious texts (Koran by Muhammed, Kitab - i - Aqdas by Baha 'u' llah, Bible, etc), not only does it say there is only one God, but it also states this God does not interfere with the affairs of man.

In conclusion, fatalism is a concept invented by people who do not wish to accept responsibility for their actions.

On a side note, i reccomend reading the Oedipus Greek Tragedy as it contains a lot of fatalist ideas.

quote:

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Originally posted by jakez0r

In conclusion, fatalism is a concept invented by people who do not wish to accept responsibility for their actions.

On a side note, i reccomend reading the Oedipus Greek Tragedy as it contains a lot of fatalist ideas.

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i believe every action and decision made by someone was made for some reason and will alter the future in some way even if its the smallest thing. i believe that those decisions made and wat happens r made for some reason at that time. that reason i would say is God.

__________________
the fool is the one who thinks he is wise, yet the wise one is the one who thinks he is a fool

Remember the heros
Remember the lives
Remember the day
God bless

we control what the next generation will live in. just as the previous generation's actions control us. we are not masters of our own fate, but of our children's.

wait, i just thought of something.

there is no such thing as free will. let's take a simple example:

clothes shopping. you go out to buy some clothes and you think that you have a choice. but do you? who decides what clothes are standing there inside that store? You don't, one of the store's worker does.

so does the worker have a choice over what clothes there are? no. who decides what kind of clothes there ought to be? not the worker, the designer. who decides what is a good design that's in fashion? not the designer but the public demand the fashion. who controls the public? media, government, etc. then you got the people in those areas that have choices that are effected by others and the chain keeps on going and going.

apply this example to all situations and it will work.

so is there fate? not sure. is there free will? no. because all actions are determined by everybody else.

:exclaim:

quote:

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Originally posted by huby40
wait, i just thought of something.

there is no such thing as free will. let's take a simple example:

clothes shopping. you go out to buy some clothes and you think that you have a choice. but do you? who decides what clothes are standing there inside that store? You don't, one of the store's worker does.

so does the worker have a choice over what clothes there are? no. who decides what kind of clothes there ought to be? not the worker, the designer. who decides what is a good design that's in fashion? not the designer but the public demand the fashion. who controls the public? media, government, etc. then you got the people in those areas that have choices that are effected by others and the chain keeps on going and going.

apply this example to all situations and it will work.

so is there fate? not sure. is there free will? no. because all actions are determined by everybody else.

:exclaim:

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__________________
the fool is the one who thinks he is wise, yet the wise one is the one who thinks he is a fool

Remember the heros
Remember the lives
Remember the day
God bless

WELL you can all make choices that affect others as well making you the person who can control other's destinys but the same thing. THUS is society and relationships. They are inevitable. Unless ur a hermit and all. You could also make the ULTIMATE decision. Suicide, relgion, o itz all good.

quote:

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Originally posted by huby40
wait, i just thought of something.

there is no such thing as free will. let's take a simple example:

clothes shopping. you go out to buy some clothes and you think that you have a choice. but do you? who decides what clothes are standing there inside that store? You don't, one of the store's worker does.

so does the worker have a choice over what clothes there are? no. who decides what kind of clothes there ought to be? not the worker, the designer. who decides what is a good design that's in fashion? not the designer but the public demand the fashion. who controls the public? media, government, etc. then you got the people in those areas that have choices that are effected by others and the chain keeps on going and going.

apply this example to all situations and it will work.

so is there fate? not sure. is there free will? no. because all actions are determined by everybody else.

:exclaim:

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