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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 08-31-2002 12:07 AM:

Universal Truths?

do they exist? if so, what are they?

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Posted by huby40 on 08-31-2002 12:24 AM:

there is 1 universal truth.

There is an exception to everything.

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 08-31-2002 12:47 AM:

whats the exception to mathematics? How is there something else that differs from the sum of angles in a triangle equal 180 degrees?

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 08-31-2002 02:12 AM:

yes there are exceptions in mathematics.

There are exceptions to the rules made for mathematics. Per se, if one were to figure out the missing length of an obtuse triangle. One usually could solve it using SinCosTan, however, there are exceptions to this. If the height is greater or less than the missing side, there are different resultants that can occur and thus make them exceptions to the SinCosTan rule.

If statements point to many exceptions in the world.

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"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 08-31-2002 04:34 AM:

yes, but thats not an exception. There's a variation in the method used, but that rule is only for certain cases, and i wasn't referring to that. the "answers" are what i was talking about. There will always be two different resultants for those cases, as well as there being only one truth for the sum of a triangles angles equals 180 degrees. 1+1 will always equal two (not in different bases), is there an exception to that? The rule you described is to find a resultant to the triangle, not "the only one." I don't think thats an exception because it still works. If it didn't work, that would be an exception.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by jini on 08-31-2002 04:42 AM:

i hate math...


are there any other universal truths?

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Posted by PsychoSnowman on 08-31-2002 05:58 AM:

the only universal truth i can think of is that we think...that was by...Aristotle? I think...anyway i think thats the only one, he described how math is not even a universal truth because it may differ in different areas of space and planets, but i don't see how that is...but i'll blindly accept it.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by jini on 08-31-2002 06:50 AM:

hmm.. i blindly accept it too.. i can't do anything about it. i'd blindly accept almost anything for a good grade.

__________________
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aim: baibeexjini
xanga: jinix

wherever you go, whatever you do
i will be right here waiting for you
whatever it takes or how my heart breaks
i will be right here waiting for you

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 08-31-2002 06:56 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
yes, but thats not an exception. There's a variation in the method used, but that rule is only for certain cases, and i wasn't referring to that. the "answers" are what i was talking about. There will always be two different resultants for those cases, as well as there being only one truth for the sum of a triangles angles equals 180 degrees. 1+1 will always equal two (not in different bases), is there an exception to that? The rule you described is to find a resultant to the triangle, not "the only one." I don't think thats an exception because it still works. If it didn't work, that would be an exception.


no, it is an exception. An exception (dictionary.com) is "An error condition that changes the normal flow of control in a setting." In the example i brought up, the two other possiblities would cause an error when using the standard rule. Therefore they are exceptions.
The examples you bring up, are both found in the basics of mathematics. Therefore, they would be true without exception or else our whole foundation would crumble. However, as my SAT tutor (a Higher Mathematics major from UC Berkeley) stated, there are always discrepencies when it comes to the higher levels of mathematics, areas which are still being debated about by the highest-caliber mathematician today.

__________________
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"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 08-31-2002 07:08 AM:

but wouldn't that same rule still yield a possible result in the same way it does for the other cases? So the rule still works for that. And though there are other possibilities, according to dictionary.com, an exception is "an instance that does not conform to a rule or generalization." The sincostan rule finds A side to the triangle, not all of them,...how could it possibly be an exception if the rule is to not find more than one side?

anyway, if i'm wrong on that, how are there exceptions to the basics? higher math is questionable i agree, but basic math is self-explanatory.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 08-31-2002 07:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman

anyway, if i'm wrong on that, how are there exceptions to the basics? higher math is questionable i agree, but basic math is self-explanatory.



there aren't. Nor did I say so. Otherwise our whole pyramid of mathematics are built on faulty foundations, which would give way sooner or later. In that case, I wouldn't want to be there to see the chaos.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 08-31-2002 07:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
but wouldn't that same rule still yield a possible result in the same way it does for the other cases? So the rule still works for that. And though there are other possibilities, according to dictionary.com, an exception is "an instance that does not conform to a rule or generalization." The sincostan rule finds A side to the triangle, not all of them,...how could it possibly be an exception if the rule is to not find more than one side?


Perhaps you misunderstood me. You are right, the rule -though the terminology doesn't ring a bell- is utilized to find one side. But depending upon circumstancial situations with the height, the results for that side varies, and that formula does not work, thus making that certain situation an exception. Therefore, we must turn to another formula in order to calculate the correct answer.
It is possible for something to be an exception of one rule, and to be fully legitimate in another.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by huby40 on 08-31-2002 01:39 PM:

u can mathematically prove that if it 2 boys can paint a fence in 4 days, then 1 boy can paint a fence in 8. does that mean that 1 boy will paint a fence in 8 days? no, because while u were doing the problem, u didnt factor in the time it takes for him to think "why the hell am i painting this god damn fence by my self" or the time it takes for him to say "screw this, im goin to the mall." In that case it will take longer to paint the fence, or the fence might not even be painted at all.

Math is way of predicting of what can happen, not what will happen. It is based on an idealstic, flawless world, which does not exist anywhere in the universe (and if it does, show me where it is).

Which comes to my realization of another universal truth, that none of you can debate:

Shit Happens.

Posted by eddiee on 08-31-2002 04:33 PM:

damnnn look at all them smart ppl postin smart stuff i dont understand -__-

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 09-01-2002 12:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter



there aren't. Nor did I say so. Otherwise our whole pyramid of mathematics are built on faulty foundations, which would give way sooner or later. In that case, I wouldn't want to be there to see the chaos.
'

never said you did, just a further enquiry.

crazydeb8ter, yeah i understand what you're talking about, but since the rule is only to find one side it still comes through even if there is another one. The rule doesn't fail, and that would be the only exception there could be. you can still use the rule to find one of the sides, the one it is intended to find. Just because there is another one doesn't mean it's an exception cause it still solves for the side it's supposed to. I don't know how many times i can restate this hah. Are you saying just because there is another side that that is an exception to the rule?

huby, you can't interchange the math and real world. Math finds math values, not real life ones, you know that you even proved the point. 1 person may not be able to do the same job in 8 days, but it is true that he has half the strength of two of them together (assuming uniformity, yes assuming cause thats what math is and it's why it's so unbreakable)

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by Jj2 on 09-03-2002 09:44 AM:

wow...this is getting interesting...

Posted by MellowYellow on 09-03-2002 10:35 PM:

you're born... then you die

???

i dunno ...

i'm strong... i'm great....... 2 +2 is 8


i feel so stupid here.....

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Posted by tea on 09-03-2002 10:56 PM:

no matter what u do, theres always someone better than u

u are born to die

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my.space

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 09-04-2002 01:09 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman

crazydeb8ter, yeah i understand what you're talking about, but since the rule is only to find one side it still comes through even if there is another one. The rule doesn't fail, and that would be the only exception there could be. you can still use the rule to find one of the sides, the one it is intended to find. Just because there is another one doesn't mean it's an exception cause it still solves for the side it's supposed to. I don't know how many times i can restate this hah. Are you saying just because there is another side that that is an exception to the rule?


No i am saying when you use the rule for its purpose in that circumstance, you would turn up with an erroneous (diction?) result. Therefore that rule does not serve its purpose in that situation and thus should be counted as an exception.

Lets bring this back to laymans terms, shall we, to see if we can find an understanding there.
The teacher would explain, "to find the side of the triangle, use this fomula, method, etc. However, there are several exceptions to this rule, one, where the height is shorter than the desired side etc."

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by aznkid1008 on 09-04-2002 01:40 AM:

I kno of 1 universal truth
if there is Good there must be Evil
there must always be a fine balance kept by God and the Devil

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