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Posted by Zero-Sen on 10-01-2002 01:59 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq

quote:
Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter

Here's what we do: Send the weapons inspectors in. This is a fluid situation, the outcome should be determined by their reading of the situation.
An interesting fact to note is that one of the head weapons inspectors to iraq declared that the attack would be "unjustified in every way."

1)if we fight this war he will not be able to bother us again: No we'll have a whole bunch of even more pissed off arabs. It has been empirically proven that civilians of an attacked country would turn against the attacking country no matter the cause. This is attributed to weapons accidents, mistaken targets, the list goes on.

2)we get oil: And the world's opinion of the US would turn to shit. With that mentality, lets get some troops into kuwait and try to get direct control there. Politics don't work that way.

3)we get bases in the middle east: The bases' function? To carry out more crackass campaigns for the "war against terrorism." Thus, no real function.

4)we protect israel: we protect israel anyways.

Nobody cares about you. It is all about the international community's opinion. The large majority does not find him to be a terrorist.

Again, what you don't understand is the complexity behind attributing to the issue and the causes of the issue. It is not as simple as 1, 2, 3. There are consequences to consider, consequences that Bush, his cabinet, and you, either overlook, ignore, or simply don't care about; and in this post-modern world, caring about the consequences is the difference between victory and defeat in the long run.

touche sir. touche.

first of all, WE ARE sending weapon inspectors in. Iraq doesn't want them. (they have something to hide.)

more pissed off arabs? we will never please them. we are "western infidels"

"Nobody cares about you. It is all about the international community's opinion. The large majority does not find him to be a terrorist."

umm.... OOOOOk....

i don't support the point of invading iraq because of oil, cause we're about to run out anyway, so i'll stop defending that point.

more bases in the middle east, another point i will stop defending.

i know it isn't as simple as it seems, but i think the outcomes of a removing the current iraqi government are better then leaving them alone.

my point:

me not like saddam. me not want boom boom with iraq. (no war.) me want saddam bye bye. (kill the #$%^er.) me not like america be attacked. you convince me of some points.

simple enough?

post modern? how are we post modern? this IS modern isn't it?

Posted by aznkid1008 on 10-01-2002 02:14 AM:

well here's my 2 cents
i believe i speak for many when i say that Bush is an idiot. Just simply an idiot. The guy is tryin 2 make it seem that he's soooo damn busy wit stuff in the middle east that he has no time to take care of our economy. If the moron wasnt busy chokin on his food he would hav noticed our economy has been goin down the shit hole for a longgggg time. 2nd yea his father should hav killed saddam along time ago but he didnt hav enough time. Yea most of the world agree's that Saddam is a heartless coward that needs 2 be shot in public but the world also see's no reason 2 attack. Yea im p/o at UN, they basically want the US to sit down and wait for an attack from Iraq or an attack on Israel so then America can hav a reason to go attack. I dont kno about u but i wasnt death dumb and blind on 9/11. If there is a threat i say f*#$ the UN and get rid of the threat. If the UN has a problem wit it well then we go and kill 3000 of their civilians and see how much they like it. I honestly couldnt care wat other countries think its our business and we will take care of it, if they arent wit us then they are against us.

__________________
the fool is the one who thinks he is wise, yet the wise one is the one who thinks he is a fool

Remember the heros
Remember the lives
Remember the day
God bless

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 10-01-2002 02:17 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq

quote:
Originally posted by Zero-Sen
Iraq doesn't want them [weapons inspectors]. (they have something to hide.)

more pissed off arabs? we will never please them. we are "western infidels"

post modern? how are we post modern? this IS modern isn't it?

me not like saddam. me not want boom boom with iraq. (no war.) me want saddam bye bye. (kill the #$%^er.) me not like america be attacked. you convince me of some points.

1) Iraq has agreed to allow UN weapons inspectors in

2) Just because they're already quite angry does not give us the authority to partake in an action that would provoke them further. Clinton was very close to resolving the middle east crisis during his presidency.

3) The modern era is generally thought by scholars to encompass the time from 1945 (Atom bomb) to the fall of the Soviet Union.

4) A covert assasination attempt would point directly at the US. c/a my statements on the backlash of the arab nations. I actually like this idea, but it seems implausible. :sad:

quote:
Originally posted by aznkid1008
If there is a threat i say f*#$ the UN and get rid of the threat. If the UN has a problem wit it well then we go and kill 3000 of their civilians and see how much they like it. I honestly couldnt care wat other countries think its our business and we will take care of it, if they arent wit us then they are against us.

again c/a my statements on the workings of the post-modern world. People who think as blindly as you (e.g. Bush) should not be positions of power because they do not understand how politics work.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by Zero-Sen on 10-01-2002 02:35 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq

quote:
Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter

again c/a my statements on the workings of the post-modern world. People who think as blindly as you (e.g. Bush) should not be positions of power because they do not understand how politics work.

indeedy doo!

i do believe bush himself is a f-ing retard, but he has a good council made for him by his father.

powell is a great general, rumsfeild, not so good, but i believe that bush's council will do the right thing.

if gore won he would've messed things up himself. (i created the internet!)

thank god for bush.

btw, last time i heard, (which was like sept. 25th.), iraq rejected the weapons inpectors. hmm...

you take latin? me too! w00t.

aznkid1008 non amant. i've been taking for about a month now. lol.

Posted by aznkid1008 on 10-01-2002 02:52 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq

quote:
Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter
again c/a my statements on the workings of the post-modern world. People who think as blindly as you (e.g. Bush) should not be positions of power because they do not understand how politics work.

Yea i would like to resolve this with words but saddam is kicking the inspectors out then in wtf is goin on. if its not obvious enough he's hiding somethin. y would he kick them out if he wasnt. the man should not be trusted more then osama bin laden. Yea I would agree to wait and try wit words if it was anyone else but saddamn, this guy has a history wit us and seems like he either wants revenge or wants 2 take it out on Israel. So i dunno about u but i hate the idea of waiting for a reason(an attack) when its obvious the snake is up 2 somethin.

__________________
the fool is the one who thinks he is wise, yet the wise one is the one who thinks he is a fool

Remember the heros
Remember the lives
Remember the day
God bless

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 10-01-2002 04:29 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq

quote:
Originally posted by Zero-Sen

powell is a great general, rumsfeild, not so good, but i believe that bush's council will do the right thing.

btw, last time i heard, (which was like sept. 25th.), iraq rejected the weapons inpectors. hmm...

you take latin? me too! w00t.

aznkid1008 non amant. i've been taking for about a month now. lol.

Powell is a good general except he lets himself get pushed around by idiots like Rumsfeild.

Hmm..i got my info from...yesterday

you're in latin 1? Good times

sona si latine loqueris

quote:
Originally posted by Zero-Sen

but saddam is kicking the inspectors out then in wtf is goin on

So i dunno about u but i hate the idea of waiting for a reason(an attack) when its obvious the snake is up 2 somethin.

1) He's not, so nothing is going on, what's your point

2) That asinine statement perfectly reflects the mindset of the Bush Cabinet. You must be a great fan of the administration, despite how much you say you dislike it. "I'm going to attack because I think...but not 100% sure...that he's going to do something to us, and we don't like him, so we'd better get the first strike capability fast!" That is the problem with all the statements the white house has been giving. Ambiguities, ambiguities, ambiguities, and no real reason why.

Posted by KeN VeRsUs RyU on 10-01-2002 05:53 AM:

wow you are a crazy debater.

__________________

xanga.com/an1_mixtape

Posted by Zero-Sen on 10-01-2002 08:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by KeN VeRsUs RyU
wow you are a crazy debater.

indeed

Posted by aznkid1008 on 10-01-2002 08:54 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq

quote:
Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter

2) That asinine statement perfectly reflects the mindset of the Bush Cabinet. You must be a great fan of the administration, despite how much you say you dislike it. "I'm going to attack because I think...but not 100% sure...that he's going to do something to us, and we don't like him, so we'd better get the first strike capability fast!" That is the problem with all the statements the white house has been giving. Ambiguities, ambiguities, ambiguities, and no real reason why.

yea yea u say that now, wat u think the guy is sittin on his ass just kicking inspectors out for no reason? think u dont kick people out 2 piss off the UN for no reason. Yea lets think like that NOTHING AT ALL is goin on in Iraq, nope he's just a nice peaceful guy not makin any weapons and not trying to hide weapons. I wonder hmmmm i kno he's now into the ciggar business. *alot of sarcasm for those that dont get it*
"Forgive your enemys but never forget their name"-JFK and hell saddamn p/o us before, the guy has a really bad history wit the world. yea and ur crack of "think" bit us in the ass before, yea we thought there maybe a Terrorist attack but u kno thats just thinking hmmmmmm i wonder wat happened on 9/11. America put its gaurd down and u want somethin like that disaster happenin again? i dunno about u but if we need 2 go attack Iraq before they attack us and could kill 3000 or more people, go for it. my main point is i dont want civilians in danger in any country, yea we had 9/11 and it hurt alot of people. Do u want a disaster happenin like that to other familys in a different country? i pray that wont happen. So unless u can figure out a way that we dont need 2 attack but keep the safety of civilians everywhere im stickin to my idea.

__________________
the fool is the one who thinks he is wise, yet the wise one is the one who thinks he is a fool

Remember the heros
Remember the lives
Remember the day
God bless

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 10-02-2002 12:41 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq

quote:
Originally posted by aznkid1008
yea yea u say that now, wat u think the guy is sittin on his ass just kicking inspectors out for no reason? think u dont kick people out 2 piss off the UN for no reason. Yea lets think like that NOTHING AT ALL is goin on in Iraq, nope he's just a nice peaceful guy not makin any weapons and not trying to hide weapons. I wonder hmmmm i kno he's now into the ciggar business. *alot of sarcasm for those that dont get it*

my main point is i dont want civilians in danger in any country, yea we had 9/11 and it hurt alot of people. Do u want a disaster happenin like that to other familys in a different country? i pray that wont happen. So unless u can figure out a way that we dont need 2 attack but keep the safety of civilians everywhere im stickin to my idea.

1) You fail to realize that you are speculating all of this. You do not have proper evidence to support your claims; thus it would be irrational to act upon speculation. Bush and his lackeys think the same way: irrationally.

2) Iraq has agreed to accept the UN Weapons Inspectors you idiot.

3) Perhaps you didn't read over my post, or perhaps you're just slow. The reason why the UN Weapons Inspectors are being sent in is to verify and assess the situation. From there we should make our decision, instead of what I explained in 1).

4) Again c/a all my statements above. It is not that we enjoy leaving civilians vulnerable, but we simply need more evidence. c/a my 30 point on how the Weapons Inspectors will accomplish that.

5) You fail to understand another thing. If we do attack immediately without proper verification, dozens of iraqi citizens would be killed in the crossfire. Before we are willing to account for that many civilian deaths, we must have firm evidence backing why an attack is neccesary. That is the main problem that the International Community is raising, and the problem that the Bush Administration, and you, are ignoring.

Posted by Zero-Sen on 10-02-2002 01:42 AM:

what i've learned from this all is that it is very important to get all the facts straight before hand, and to organize your point of view before showing it. otherwise it is viewed, disproved, and you are labeled as a dumbass, as shown by aznkid1008 by crazydeb8ter.

indeed, it is vital for people to organize how they will defend their points and to do so with out being insulting or assinine. before coming to judgements we must re-evaluate our opinions not only twice but even three times.

i thank you crazydeb8ter for helping recognize and learn from this particular debate, and wish you luck on your attempts to enlighten our quaint friend here.

Posted by aznkid1008 on 10-02-2002 01:48 AM:

ummm yo chill its a debate not like anyone ever listens 2 me anyway
but look at the options we got
we can wait for the inspectors, that are finally let in, find evidence
or we wait for an attack.
yea alrite evidence is needed but hell i dont like our options rite now :sad:
i got a question for u, y do u think he kicked the inspectors out in the first place? just my THEORY that he's hiding somethin. i mean saddamn is stupid but doesnt want the UN up his ass. all he needed 2 do is 2 buy time and i think he bought alot of time to do watever he wanted 2 do. i mean he had enough time to move a missle or burn evidence. food for thought

__________________
the fool is the one who thinks he is wise, yet the wise one is the one who thinks he is a fool

Remember the heros
Remember the lives
Remember the day
God bless

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 10-02-2002 01:53 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by aznkid1008

yea alrite evidence is needed but hell i dont like our options rite now :sad:

i got a question for u, y do u think he kicked the inspectors out in the first place? just my THEORY that he's hiding somethin. i mean saddamn is stupid but doesnt want the UN up his ass. all he needed 2 do is 2 buy time and i think he bought alot of time to do watever he wanted 2 do. i mean he had enough time to move a missle or burn evidence. food for thought

If evidence is needed then attacking is not an option right now.

Of course, your question is all speculation and really has no grounds.
Yes, he is probably doing something shady, but again, we really do not have any credibility until we get some hard factual evidence.

Posted by Zero-Sen on 10-06-2002 10:11 PM:

i just reread this whole thing and GODDAMN am i an asshole.

thought this would be interesting:
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2071969

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