Jusunlee.com Forums Pages (3): « 1 [2] 3 »
Show all 44 posts from this thread on one page

Jusunlee.com Forums (https://www.jusunlee.com/forums/index.php)
- Enlightenment (https://www.jusunlee.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=17)
-- Universal Truths? (https://www.jusunlee.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=4835)

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 09-04-2002 02:00 AM:

what is good? what is evil? Are they not subjective? Are they innate? How can you be sure? Hitler thought his genocide was justified, he thought he was doing good, is it then still universal if an oddity is named? Killing people wasn't always immoral, it developed overtime (ancient tribes whom kidnapped others and killed them in order to insure the survival of their own is an example). Civilization creates good and evil, but there are as many civilizations as there are different versions of good and evil. Anyway, one must prove that such a thing as good exists before they can use it to prove the opposite.

Does god exist? Same with the devil, how is that a truth if it cannot be proven? A fine balance doesn' thave to happen, and judging from the amount of evil that is in the world, how can you be sure?

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 09-04-2002 02:14 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
what is good? what is evil? Are they not subjective? Are they innate?





the idea of good and evil is a social construct created by man as a basis on how to judge what actions are acceptable or what actions are not.


...and that is sounding alot like a Kritik. Ok i will stop now, the last thing i want to be like is a kritik blox writer.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by TyGer STyLe on 09-04-2002 06:15 AM:

damn... this shiz is gettin too logical in here... specially the math shit... damn i hate math... stupid numbers...

__________________
Enter My Head!

Posted by MellowYellow on 09-04-2002 08:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by TyGer STyLe
damn... this shiz is gettin too logical in here... specially the math shit... damn i hate math... stupid numbers...


amen to that....

universal truths?....only one?... there aren't any?

since everything you said is arguable that means it can't be absolute undeniable truth...

so i guess it would be a universal truth that there aren't any universal truths... excpet for this one...haha


lol don't kill me...i know that's stupid...haha...... attack what i said ALL YOU WANT.... cuz i mean... that's just what my simple mind thinks....

__________________
I hate google cache.

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 09-05-2002 09:31 AM:

haha, well i don't think thats a universal truth, and since i think the only universal truth is that we think...i'd say i'm proving mine further and if yours was true, it wouldn't exist as you stated haha, so there's no way it could possibly exist as a truth. That and the existence of mine disproves yours, if you accept the one i outlined. But you can't accept the truth you named either for obvious contradictions you stated.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 09-06-2002 01:13 AM:

nice thinking david.

yes, another universal truth is that all people who have 10 toes..have ten toes.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by MellowYellow on 09-06-2002 03:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
haha, well i don't think thats a universal truth, and since i think the only universal truth is that we think...i'd say i'm proving mine further and if yours was true, it wouldn't exist as you stated haha, so there's no way it could possibly exist as a truth. That and the existence of mine disproves yours, if you accept the one i outlined. But you can't accept the truth you named either for obvious contradictions you stated.


dah.....


lol.....


weird i actually understood that....

..... thas crazy mang....lol.... that i understood it.....

__________________
I hate google cache.

Posted by Nojeel on 09-06-2002 03:57 AM:

there is absolutely none..the beliefs and the knowledge that we gather..where is this coming from..is this information really the truth? did someone just create it? i don't know..i'm lost..

__________________
Recongizable

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 09-06-2002 09:47 AM:

yeah, that has been a question sought after for centuries. Notably, there have been two prominent movements. Britain, had the Empiricists, and somewhere else in europe held more of whats called rationalist thinkers. Empiricists, like the name suggests is that we reason through and only through what we have all ready perceived. In other words, human reason is obtained through perception. Rationalists, say human reason is the prevalent way we obtain knowledge.

I forgot who...hmm well some guy haha, well they are all just some guy with a reputation behind them afterall, heh. So anyway, there is no reason to investigate further than human senses is what he said. Constantly reaching the intangible would seem for naught at its pure impossibility.

here's an example, put on a pair of blue colored lens sunglasses. Everything looks blue...but is everything blue? No, how do you know that? Because you have seen the other world full of many colors, hence you experienced it before, thats an empirist point of view. However, a rationlist would argue that human reason would be able to reveal that to oneself one day...but how would that be possible if all we have to work with is our glasses,...or senses. We can't take off the glasses of our senses, it's inconceivable to a human being to perceive beyond that...simply because we CAN'T see beyond that.

"Did someone just create it?" Well, knowing that we know nothing as confucious said is the mark of true knowledge. But i'm a little lost in teh questino...hmm do you mean that all we know is false? I would agree to a certain extent, if we go with linguistics, nothing is real, we created language and all labels towards everything doesn't exist, only the object themselves. But how can we not label and refer to things? Right, we can't. We have to label, and accepting labels as simply labels we are able make our own truths. I guess i don't understand what you mean by truth...1+1 = 2, yes, thats true, nothing will change that and though there really isn't a "1", the representation is real. Does that make sense? all right, i'll let off now.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by huby40 on 09-06-2002 09:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Crazydeb8ter
nice thinking david.

yes, another universal truth is that all people who have 10 toes..have ten toes.



hahah, thats a good use of his reasoning

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 09-06-2002 10:11 PM:

even though jocose, that's not a universal truth. It's a specific truth.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by jini on 09-06-2002 10:12 PM:

how about.. "it exists"? is that a universal truth?

__________________
homepage: name-less.com/jini
aim: baibeexjini
xanga: jinix

wherever you go, whatever you do
i will be right here waiting for you
whatever it takes or how my heart breaks
i will be right here waiting for you

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 09-06-2002 10:53 PM:

i don't get what you mean? could you elaborate? Anyway, I just thought of another thread cause of waht you said, so graci.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 09-06-2002 11:05 PM:

no.. its quite universal that all the people in the universe, that have ten toes, do have ten toes. It applies to the universe and it is the truth.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 09-06-2002 11:20 PM:

it's universal only to that which encompasses the "truth." It'd only be universal if it was true for all of something, which it's not. It's true for a subset of a group. Look at your own wording, "it its quite universal that all the people in the universe, that have ten toes, do have ten toes" That doesn't apply to the universe, even though it's mentioned in the sentence. It's identifying a small grouop of people, saying something is true, then saying it must be true for all those. With that logic, we have everything in the universe almost being a universal truth. Humans have ten fingers, to them that is a universal truth...for all mechanical pencils that you can change the lead to, it is true for them that they can change lead. get it? That's just stating something, then saying thats true for the things stated.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 09-06-2002 11:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
With that logic, we have everything in the universe almost being a universal truth.


...and your problem with that being...?

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoSnowman
That doesn't apply to the universe


oh yes it does. All the people in the universe that have 10 toes, have ten toes, its simple yet practical logic. As for your comment for, "it doesn't apply," that is most ridiculous statement in this thread. When it states, "all the people in the universe that have 10 toes," it MEANS "all the people in the universe that have 10 toes." There is no question of whether it applies or not, since the premise in the sentence verifies that it applies to the whole universe.


regardless of whether it is a subset or not. It is still the truth. And it is still universal. It therefore fufills both requirements and thus is a universal truth.

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by huby40 on 09-06-2002 11:44 PM:

"people who have 10 toes have 10 toes."

that just sounds like a silly restatement of data to me

Posted by Crazydeb8ter on 09-06-2002 11:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by huby40
"people who have 10 toes have 10 toes."

that just sounds like a silly restatement of data to me


yet people who do have 10 toes, do have 10 toes. so it is the truth, despite its redundancy

__________________
ni pour ni contre; ça m'est égal

"The weight of this sad time we must obey,/ Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say./ The oldest hath borne most; we that are young/ Shall never see so much, nor live so long."
King Lear (V.3.300-304)

Posted by PsychoSnowman on 09-07-2002 06:41 PM:

hahah, oook victor.

__________________
Long messages do not equal aggravation of any sort,
rather they reflect nothing more than a response of insight
that should always be read in a matter-of-fact tone.

"Those womyn that seek equality with men, lack determination."

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be wrong."
-Cromwell

Posted by azn0monk on 09-09-2002 05:38 AM:

I believe the one universal truth is balance..

Everything is kept in a flowing balance..

For ex: There are some things we are allowed to know.
Which makes things that we are NOT allowed to know. such as pursuing the truth for existence.
All times are GMT. The time now is 07:47 AM. Pages (3): « 1 [2] 3 »
Show all 44 posts from this thread on one page